Family members posting #notadebate on FB

[TrumpsToddlerTantrums]

What do I do?

I knew we had very different views, and I have cowardly not addressed it. My daughter is very much influenced by them, and calls me a white feminist, but I am white and I am a feminist I don't understand the slur you intend knows I have GC views.

We skate around the subject in real life, and my attitude to most things on FB is don't engage, never engage, social media is a blunt instrument, but I've had some 🍷, and I just don't want to let it go.

Wise women of FWR, what should I say?

Actually, isn't ithat really strange how transwomen don't all go around pushing new born baby dolls in prams? It's all about lipstick and frocks isn't it. You'd think at least some of them would push prams - such a readily accessible accoutrement of femininity. It wouldn't matter after all if the baby was pretend as you can get very well made new born dolls these days. After all many of them have fake breasts etc. And neo vaginas aren't exactly real. What are your thoughts Pratchet on the lack of prams.

Floorplan this is one of the most out right hateful things I have ever read on here. the reason that maybe we do not do that is we have actual children wirh people and we Co parent with our partners.

to the original poster just show your daughter this thread and I'm sure it will help show you her that this is a reasoned view point

Oh I see like I am Cait. You have the kids as a man, let the wife change the nappies, then become a laydee when the kids leave home. But puberty blockers won't afford this possibility to young trans will it so why do trans people keep pushing for youngsters to take sterilising blockers?

Floorplan well maybe you do. what my firend as just done and go through ivf successfully like lots of other same sex couples do and start a family. we are no different to any other person really.

Except the baby will be chestfed by its father right with hormone laced milk

Well in your mind I suppose they will. they have recently. got married and are very excited to be starting a family together. I also know. the father and I can definitely tell you he will not be growing breasts 😂

The mind boggles

I know Floorplan the modern world is often confusing, but two woman can now get married and have children using ivf with a sperm doner most people are ok with that these days. I know crazy right

But the DSM describes how certain categories of transwomen adopt behaviours they feel are feminine, Bespin. The example given is knitting, a pastime one transwoman in the public eye pursues ostentatiously.

You know as well as I do that some transwomen wear false breasts, whole body suits, and a few even take hormones to simulate lactation. There are other examples.

It's not hateful to describe or observe behaviour. You may not like it, but that's not the same.

Well, I sobered up enough to decide that I am a coward discretion is the better part of valour, but intend to respond to the next opportunity, and am marshalling my thoughts in preparation. Thanks for your input everybody, I'm keeping notes!

My DD went to Pride this weekend, I asked when she got back if she'd seen the protest. She hadn't, but when I started to talk about it she snapped back with "those awful transphobe lesbians!", I guess the PN coverage has done it's job for its target audience and she shut down the conversation.

Bespin I have asked DD to look at Mumsnet threads before, but she's not interested in reading them. I think she finds it all a bit embarrassing that mum has rediscovered her political conscience.

I don't think Floorplans comments were the most hateful I've ever seen. To me, what I see of trans people is the performance, the accoutrements to womanhood, it is a very superficial understanding of what a woman is. It has nothing to do the life that I or most of the women I know have lived. It's the lack of empathy to a woman's lived experience that is the most grating.

Holy fuck! I've just done it, my DD commented and the red mist descended.

Her comment:
"It was infuriating to find out this happened (I found out after pride) obviously they disregard the history of pride . I will always support the trans community if people close to me don't."

My response:
"What is wrong with lesbians saying lesbian = female homosexual or lesbian not queer? Women who reject heterosexual sex are entitled to say that they won't have sex with a penis. They are entitled to say there is no such thing as a lady penis or a girly dick. If a penis and a vagina are involved that is heterosexual sex, it is not lesbian.

If women who state that they are lesbians are then expected to have sex with a penis, if they cannot say NO to a penis because it is bigoted, where does that leave the issue of consent for the rest of women? Will women not consenting to sex with a man then become an act of bigotry? Will resisting rape make you a bigot?

I'm sorry, Georgie, but I stand with my lesbian sisters and the right of women to say NO.

(And yay to 8 women being the big story to come out of a Pride of 30000 participants. The same Pride that 3 years ago gave permission to UKIP to march.)"

I think I might name change now!

🎉🎉 well done. Articulate and coherent.

That was brave. Your argument is flawless. Bravo,!

I'm feeling a bit giddy, tbh! Like the genie's out of the bottle now, stand back and watch me commit literal violence with every post. I've been liberated, bring it on! And I didn't even use the T word.

Think your DD’s real name might be in there somewhere OP.

Please don't stop updating this thread. It's really interesting to see this debate play out.

My own DSs are in their early 20s. We've discussed the issues and both are now totally behind the idea that sex is important, gender is not. As for males in women only spaces, DS1 shakes his head and says "It's not going to end well, Mum. There's going to be some awful crimes before people see their mistakes."

Sorry Bespin, when you said you knew the father I thought you meant the father was a biological man (would have to be to supply the sperm) and married to a transman (as you also said they were a same sex couple) that's why my mind boggled when you said he wouldn't be growing breasts.

Anyway, I wasn't and didn't mean to be hurtful, I was more making the observation (somewhat flippantly perhaps) that transwomen seem to want to pick and choose from the cornucopia of women's experiences. I know all women don't have children, but it seems to be genuinely strange to me, as a mother, that transwomen are not that interested in this aspect of womanhood.

Myself, I react strongly to children. A lot of women without children have pets. Whether its intrinsic to biological females or part of our socialisation, I think its an important observation. After all, all societies have children, but not all societies have stilettos and lipstick. Some societies have women with many rings around their necks, it's random and unconnected to being a woman really, it's just a way of signalling that she's female to others. I think it's to do with sexual signalling like peacocks, a courtship behaviour or ritual. This makes me think it's to do with sexuality rather than sex.

For example, many mothers my age wear jeans and tshirts. I've let myself go I admit. I also admit that part of the reason I used to get dressed up in my twenties and try to look pretty was to be attractive to men and get a nice boyfriend/partner.

That's why it seems so inappropriate when middle aged transwomen with Olympic medals get dressed up very glamourous. Because biological women that age mostly have a blue rinse or, if a bit more trendy, look a bit hippy. Women dressed up to the nines at that age look a bit sad really, and, again, it makes me think the trans thing is to do with sexuality rather than sex.

Silly me, I forgot that #itsnotadebate. My comment has been deleted.

Do I let it go, or am I so very, very annoyed that I "go public"? I know I posted it, they obviously know I posted, whether or not DD knows, who knows?

I'm considering sharing a Mayday post with my comment. I will charge up my phone and hoist up my MN pants.

I don't see your post as deleted.

"Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny. Free men pull in all kinds of directions ... It's the only way to make progress". Terry Pratchett

My FB comment was deleted.

Well done Tantrums. Our children should not be allowed to think they can dictate to us.