Family members posting #notadebate on FB

[TrumpsToddlerTantrums]

What do I do?

I knew we had very different views, and I have cowardly not addressed it. My daughter is very much influenced by them, and calls me a white feminist, but I am white and I am a feminist I don't understand the slur you intend knows I have GC views.

We skate around the subject in real life, and my attitude to most things on FB is don't engage, never engage, social media is a blunt instrument, but I've had some 🍷, and I just don't want to let it go.

Wise women of FWR, what should I say?

My DD and I are currently in an uneasy truce, perhaps spitting the words bigot and misogynist at each other when the opportunity arises . She's still a teenager so a) won't be told b) knows best c) can't be doing with the "paranoid ramblings of a middle-aged woman". Long may her innocence continue, I've told her it breaks my heart to think that by the time she's my age she'll probably have as much disappointment and experience and share my "paranoia" about male entitlement and male violence. I always used to feel optimistic about the world becoming a better place, now I am really scared for the future.

I shall give some thought unaddled by wine to my FB dilemma.

FFS she spends years moaning about how corporatised PRIDE has become and it isn't the protest it originally was, we finally see some protest and she's standing in support of all trans people against anti-trans lesbians. Obviously the wrong sort of protest going on there then.

I need coffee then I'm going to say something.

If she is saying ‘paranoid ramblings of a middle-aged woemn’ she hasn’t really got an argument as she isn’t addressing the argument just insulting the speaker. (Quite a snappy line though) I hate this as an argument. Plus in the words of Joseph Heller, ‘Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they aren’t out to get you’.

paranoid ramblings of a middle-aged woman
I can see how she would drive you up the wall!

TrumpsToddlerTantrums good luck hope it goes well, agree with the pride is protest bit. don't have to agree with its aims. I hope you are both able to talk and to listen to each others views and that even if you don't change them at least you can both appreciate each others point of view

Even if she doesn't agree with you now, she'll remember these conversations further down the line, when she has more life experience herself. Good luck.

Sex in a binary, based on reproductive role and immutable #nodebate

serious question TrumpsToddlerTantrums could you not show her this forum and all. the debate on. it?

I face this IRL soon. A highly articulate and outspoken female who I always thought of as feminist.
I know that when we're face to face and the subject arises that her skill in arguing vs my inability to think on my feet will shut down any debate and leave me looking prejudiced.
How has it come to this? When standing up for my rights against oppression is being twisted to make me look like the oppressor?

Biological woman: keep asking her 'what do you mean?'

So when she says 'trans women are women' say 'what do you mean by women there?'

When she says 'expand the female gender to include trans people' say 'what do you mean by gender' 'what do you mean by female'?

Say that when having this conversation, it's essential to have the same meanings for words to understand each other, sonyou need to know what she means.

If she talks about gender identity not matching the body, tell her that transadvocates believe the body has nothing to do with 'male and female'. Transadvocates say it's not necessary to have a 'female' reproductive system to be female, and that if you have a 'female' reproductive system., you aren't necessarily female. So the body has no 'sex' for your gender identity to match with.

Thank you, that's very helpful. I was just looking at a Twitter conversation where a male claims that same point - Richard (Dick!) Duffy
He says
But we're not discussing sex. We're discussing gender. One is only relevant in medical circumstances, the other is commonly referred to in day to day interactions. Someone's gender has no impact on the medical experiences of others based on their sex.

Fortunately there are many women who are stating why his

Sorry - comments are WRONG!

Put to her Rebecca Reilly Cooper's questions on sex & gender identity.

rebeccarc.com/2018/01/14/some-basic-questions-about-sex-and-gender-for-progressives/

"women are adult human females. Men are adult human males. Biology says so.

#nodebate"

Should do the trick!

Thanks - that sounds useful. Will have a look

I'm in a similar position with a friend. I linked her to that same video and she wouldn't watch it. She told me I'm part of a cult.(GC feminists)

I have one female who is turning male and one male who wants to turn female and to be honest it's difficult to pretend I'm 100% supportive of everything they say.

Because of course I'm pro rights and anti discrimination but I especially do not like the push of under18s who show any sign of gender dysphoria to go into transition.

Even though I'm pretty reasonable (I think) I'd be shot down publicly so I just go straight past most their posts which is a shame.

I have no issue with calling someone a male but funnily enough don't like to call them a man. One denotes characteristics and one anatomy time. Same with female/woman.

I think if someone is so quick to shut down others then they are unlikely to see that other views are possible or acceptable.

To me transphobia means hatred not displeasure of how it is termed and some of the action that is wanted to be taken.

mimmymam Im trying to get my head round your comment. Would you mind explaining it. Did you mean something like this?

If 1% people have the wrong body, then the body obviously has nothing to do with gender. In which case the 1% should be happy with their body (ie middle aged type men who say they are women.) So woman gender means those who believe they are women. So why would anyone have GRS and why do they encourage kids to do it "otherwise they will commit suicide." Why dont they tell kids its so very normal to be a girl with a boys body and the kid can then happily get on with life as an effeminate boy or a masculine girl.

Or alternatively if 1% people are in the wrong body then the body obviously has to change. Clearly some can't or won't have the surgery (and they will have to just suffer the misery and possibly be at risk of suicide). So woman is a 3D shape with human form including 2 large bumps on the chest and an elongated concavity between the legs. And man is a 3D shape with human form including 2 little bumps and an elongated convexity between the legs.

Not sure I even understand what Ive written either. Im so confused.Cant we just say be yourself, stop operating on teenagers and have safe places for XX people?

I mean that in trans ideology there is no such thing as a male or female body by reproductive role.

So there's no 'male' or ''female' from a brain to identify with and no 'male' or 'female' for anyone to trans to or from.

God I don't understand what you are saying either. I can be thick. Are you saying trans dont recognise reproduction as being relevant to the trans issue? I would agree.
I dont understand the second sentence though. I thought they believed in male/female brains?

I'm mimmyman

How can you have such a concept of 'male' or 'female' for a brain to have - if it doesn't relate to reproductive role? There is no male or female if you take away reproductive role.

Ps not thick. The whole of trans ideology is a trick.

I don't believe this myself, but I believe they would counteract that the foetus has 2 hormone sensitive periods (I don't think there is any evidence for this but that doesn't stop them). One affects the brain the second affects the sex organs. This is how they get round the argument.
So transwomen would like pink and stilettos and being nice to children but their bodies were misbuilt so..