Guardian also today

[MIdgebabe]

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/05/dolls-dresses-no-proof-not-girl-pink-v-blue

I am 67 and never wore dresses unless going to a party !!

I think the YouGov poll has played a significant role in showing that despite claims by some factions that most people support self- ID, this is not actually the case.

Yes I can definitely see that having an effect. Wasn't the poll 'done' by pink news? (obviously done by yougov but I don't know how else to put that) I am sure I read that somewhere. If so, I would imagine they were planning on using it as a 'ha, gotcha' to feminists...were they really so deluded as to think that the majority opinion was pro selfID?! They must have known that there was a very large chance that feminists were right when they said public opinion was mainly against..

Just had a quick scan through the comments. Almost all, or the ones I read at least, are in support of the article.

On Twitter she says:

' In case it’s not clear enough in the piece, I am a gender critical feminist, a term which has got bizarrely bad press of late. But unless you think girls should only like princesses and boys should only like trucks, you’re probably one, too.'

Go Hadley!

The poll was commissioned by prick news.
When I saw it, it was the highlight of an otherwise horrible week.
Blown up by their own bomb. Hahahahaha BOOM!!!

Hadley Freeman approaching it head-on and saying things that no one would have dared to say six months ago. Well done, Hadley, and thank you.

OP, could you change the title of this thread to give a proper heads-up to Hadley Freeman? It's very easily missed or overlooked. She needs a name-check.

'were they really so deluded as to think that the majority opinion was pro selfID?!'

I think so. Some people's echo chambers have very thick walls.
I had a gradually-transitioning friend who genuinely thought terfs were just a tiny hate group and was surprised when I said 'it is us'. The cognitive dissonance hurt his head though so he blocked me pretty sharpish.

They tell themselves we are like the people opposed to gay marriage and are so caught up in that analogy they don't realise how little it matches reality.

Yes! Go Hadley!

I wonder if LOJ has responded yet?

I bloody love Hadders

I love you Hadley!

Praise be Hadley!

I'm surprised the PN poll came out evenue with support it did. What was the question? I suspect it would be a lot lower if people had a proper understanding of the implications rather than wanting to answer yes to seem to be nice.

Great article although I'm still a bit that it even had to be written. One of the reasons I was slow to catch on to this was that I just couldn't believe people in the 21st century were seriously saying that if you liked dresses it was a sign you were a boy and if you liked trucks you must be a boy. I was sure there must be more to it than that, because people really couldn't be that stupid.

But none of that is Hadley's fault so well said - and so cleverly written that it's pretty much impossible to argue against without sounding like a total bellend.

You Gov could do with explaining how they tested the questions and what respondents understood by them (it matters enormously).

Hooray! Go Hadley.

I am so concerned that on one hand schools and nurseries are supporting the "let toys be toys" and "let girls be girls" type campaigns whilst on the other prostrating themselves at the feet of the "put everyone in a pink or blue box" brigade.

We are all unique - stop trying to put people into gender boxes.

One big problem is that the media and the government use gender interchangeably with sex when the two are totally different things. Even the YouGov poll asked for your gender and then offered the sex classifications of Male or Female so it any wonder people are confused?

Penny Mordaunt needs to read that article and then every single one of the comments.

Great article - but let’s not get misty eyed about the 50s/60s/70s. Women were in the minority at Universities. In the 50s and 60s women were expected to leave jobs when we got married. Into the 70s, women were socially shamed for getting pregnant out of wedlock. Most schools didn’t allow female pupils to do woodwok and metal work etc, etc, etc.

Children were less looked over and interacted with in everyday play - which could have led to greater freedom to climb trees and explore and clothes were often handed down (I wore a lot of my older brother’s things in the 70s!)

But sterotypes were alive and kicking and impacting and constraining women.

It’s why some of us have been so worried by the idea that female means make-up and heels and dresses etc. We really don’t want to go back to those social expectations defining us.

Absolutely.

Hadley (or maybe a PA) emailed back to say thanks for the solidarity. 😍

She's such a brilliant writer. And so clear and sane.