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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans-Time? An allegory for this debate

63 replies

heresyandwitchcraft · 30/06/2018 12:40

Hi Mumsnet. I wrote something, as "comic relief," after seeing a comparison between time and gender. And I thought, huh, they're probably not that different after all. It got a little long, but wanted to share it with you.

Trans-time is time?

What the “trans-time debate” seemed like it could be back then…

Sally: Good afternoon Greg!

Greg: Hi Sally! Listen, I have something I need to tell you. It’s actually my evening. For medical reasons, my day-time will officially be your night-time from now on… I am trans-time. My doctor has diagnosed me with time-dysphoria. For a long while, I have felt deeply uncomfortable with living in this time zone. The only way for me to live a happy life is if I adopt the time zone of a country across the globe.

Sally: Wait… what?

Greg: Yes, being trans-time with time-dysphoria means that I must change my current diurnal rhythm to match my internal identity. I experience time differently. The best way to alleviate my symptoms is by transitioning from day to night. I realize it’s hard to understand, but if you wouldn’t mind using neutral terms like “hello,” or considering saying “good evening” to me when it’s your daytime, I would greatly appreciate it.

Sally: Umm… Just to be clear, what time do you think it is right now?

Greg: Well, intellectually I know that it’s actually 12 noon! The sun is exceptionally hot and bright today! But internally… I feel it is midnight. It’s a mismatch that affects me greatly. For some reason my diurnal rhythm is much more closely suited to a time zone across the globe. I feel incredibly tired right now yet will be wide-awake in 12 hours. Despite trying everything I cannot seem to fix this. So I am going to switch my lifestyle to follow this clock inside myself. I’m looking to gain new friends over the internet in countries across the world, look at trans-time specific needs, and still try and blend in with society the best I can. I know I’ll need to make adjustments like vitamin D supplements, probably look into sunlight alternatives. I am even considering donating to charity the some of the pay rise I’ll get for only working the traditional “antisocial hours”… because… well, I’ll see myself as working normal hours.

Sally: I don’t really understand, but if this is something you’ve worked out with your doctor, and is the only thing that will make you happy, then you do you. I’ll try my best to be polite, to use neutral greetings. I’ll try not to deliberately hurt you, but I don’t think I will be able to fully understand the concept of your night being my day, or go along with it completely... Because I just… I can’t say that noon the same as midnight. Sorry about that. Besides, I’ll really miss having you around at lunch.

Greg: That’s okay, Sally… I get it. I appreciate you listening to me with an open mind. I’m happy we could find at least some middle ground. Hopefully we can keep talking and understand each other’s perspectives better.

Sally: Thanks Greg. Can we still go for a cup of tea every once in a while? Perhaps in my mornings… which I guess are your… evenings?

Greg: Of course. Tea is completely independent of time zones.

OP posts:
heresyandwitchcraft · 30/06/2018 12:40

What the “trans-time debate” feels like now…

Sally: Good afternoon Greg!

Greg: Sally… My preferred greeting is good evening. It is currently 12AM. Midnight! It’s ignorant to assume my time zone. It’s not that hard to ask me what time I identify with, and greetings I prefer. I am trans-time which means my time identity doesn’t match our rigid and oppressive time zone.

Sally: Wait what? It’s 12pm! Noon! Is this some kind of medical condition?

Greg: Urgh. You really need to do some research. We are in 2018! It’s actually nighttime right now.

Sally: But Greg… We’re just about to go for lunch! Like we do every day.

Greg: You cannot question my conception of time. Google it. Time is a total social construct. Time identity is an internal sense of how you relate to the world. How do you know what a minute feels like to me, or how I experience night and day? It’s an act of violence for you to try to invalidate what time it is for me like this. It’s got nothing to do with medicine. You don’t need a mismatched diurnal rhythm to be trans-time. It’s not comparable to jetlag or insomnia. There are an infinite number of possible time-identities. You wouldn’t understand, because you’re cis-time, which means your time identity matches with your time zone.

Sally: Umm… Whatever a time identity is, I don’t think I have it! I don’t “match” with our time zone! I hate getting up in the morning. But I just go with the clock, and look at my surroundings! The sun is shining! It’s obviously daytime!

Greg: I can’t believe you’re still using the “pre-school” concepts of night and day. At university, you realize it’s so much more complicated. Read some f**king "Time Zone Trouble: Daytime-ism and the Subversion of Identity". How can you even define “night” and “day”? What about sunset and sunrise, or solar eclipses? What about the Australian Aboriginal concepts of time? How dare you discriminate against them?

Sally: Well… Firstly, you are not Australian Aboriginal, and I know for a fact you’ve never even met one. You’re a dude with 100% European ancestry shamelessly using their concepts of time as a political tool to justify your own wants. Please don’t. It isn’t cool. Secondly, the dictionary definitions of day include the unit of time it takes for the Earth to complete a full rotation respective to the sun. Day also signifies the periods of time when we have sunlight in between periods of the darkness known as night - which is how I am using it here. We organize a lot of our social structures around days, the idea of daytime, including working hours… Thirdly, solar eclipses are incredibly rare, brief, and don’t really change our definitions! You can’t even see a solar eclipse at night! And finally, sunset and sunrise serve as demarcation lines for day and night. I actually think they’re almost exceptions that prove the rule.

Greg: See, you can’t even clearly define “day!” Or explain why “time” is a thing that we can’t change! What about daylight savings time? What about places at the poles of the Earth when you have phenomena like “midnight sun?” Or the fact that throughout the world we have different time zones? How dare you deny their existence?

Sally: But Greg… with all due respect… Please don’t compare what you’re doing with daylight savings time – just because we collectively decided to change the clocks by an hour twice a year doesn’t mean a person can independently change their own clocks by 12 hours, or that time is irrelevant! We live in THIS country! You’ve never even travelled anywhere else, so how can you possibly relate to “their time zone” more than your own? You can’t even physically be in this country and be in one across the globe at the same time! We’re also nowhere near the North or South Poles… The fact that we have twilight hours and mild seasonal variation in daylight doesn’t invalidate the meaning of night and day! Even somewhere like Northernmost Norway, where the sun might be out at “midnight” in summertime, would still have concepts of time, of day and night! But again! We don’t live there! Look, I’d like to try and support you as best I can through whatever this is, but I refuse to go along with your assertion that it is currently night-time right here, right now! We’re both wearing sunglasses because it’s so bright outside!!! We’re on our lunch break from work! How can you possibly insist it is midnight?!?

Greg: So you agree that there are no good definitions? How dare you question my day or night, if you can’t even coherently define them?

Sally: Wait, what? You’re the one making the claim that it’s currently midnight when it’s 12 noon in the place where we are both standing! You’re the one demanding I go along with you! You’re the one changing definitions, not me! The burden of proof is on you! I’ve explained why my terms are valid. So far you haven’t given me anything to make me rethink my position! What’s your evidence for your claim?

Greg: God, you’re such an idiot and a bigot. You cannot belittle my truth. Trans-night is night, and trans-day is day. Trans-time is time. Period. It’s really not that hard to understand.

Sally: But how do you even know what time it is if you have no experiences outside our current time-zone? What does being trans-time mean, apart from an internal feeling?

Greg: How do YOU know what time it is? Even a child is born with an innate sense of the time. I knew since I was 5 years old. I never wanted to go to bed, and I’ve always napped during the day. I think we should allow children to tell us what time it is, for their own mental health. If I had been supported to transition my time zone as a child everything would be different.

Sally: WHAT?! To clarify - you want 5 years old children to be able to set their own time?! Won’t that massively disrupt their schooling, social activities, exercise, and grip on the basic concepts like night and day? Shouldn’t we explore what time zones are and why they might feel alienated? What about the longer term consequences of all of this, like chronic diurnal rhythm disruption or sunlight deprivation?

Greg: Jesus, I am so glad you’re not my parent. Kids obviously know their own time-identity better than we do. It’s better to accept what they’re saying and support them in transitioning their time, rather than have them commit suicide. And the earlier they start living in their new time-zone, the better. Now, I notice you still haven’t told me how YOU know what time it is. You can’t even answer my questions!

Sally: Greg… I am not gonna agree with you on the kids thing. We should absolutely ground them in basic reality, be supportive of them, but proceed with caution. The thought of a 5 year old having the capacity to say they never want to play in the sunlight again makes me feel… a little queasy. Especially when we know that they are still developing! On your question as to how I know what time it is for me… Would it help if I made a sun-dial to illustrate my points? An hourglass? We can call a watchmaker, or even just check our computers and smartphones? We can ask the general public? Or we can talk astronomy, geography or the history of timekeeping? Or even how working hours evolved?

Greg: Why are you so gross!? Even mentioning sun-dials or all that other crap is incredibly outdated and trans-time-phobic. Especially when I am fighting for my rights to be paid the same amount as all the other night-shift workers and have my identity validated. You are literally murdering me here.

Sally: Hold on… You’re petitioning to get paid the same as the guys working antisocial hours? But you’re going to be working the same hours as me? Because you’re saying you are currently on a night-shift? At 12 noon? Isn’t that a little unfair to the workers who actually do work hours without daylight, who suffer with disruption to their diurnal rhythm and have potential health problems? Isn’t that a little unfair to me, given we’ll be working the same hours but you’ll get paid more?

Greg: You are the worst trans-time-phobe I have ever met! You’re actively encouraging discrimination against me! There is literally no difference between the people working antisocial shifts and myself because I am on a night shift right now! Trans-night is night. To make any distinction between trans-time and cis-time is exactly the same as racial discrimination! I cannot believe you’re this hateful. You’re worse than the Nazis!

Sally: But couldn’t you, you know, actually just start living your life according to the other time zone? And have that actual transition be part of the definition of what it means to be trans-time? Or just agree with me that you’re technically not working the traditional definition of antisocial hours? Is there a neutral, 24-hour clock that we can agree on?

Greg: You’re absolutely disgusting! What kind of terrible gatekeeping are you proposing? Are you saying I am not trans-time enough? That it’s up to you to decide who is trans-time? Is your concept of time is the only one that’s valid? A 24-hour clock won’t let me express my true self, which means you are literally denying my existence. I cannot believe you even suggest that I should have to change anything about myself just because I am trans-time. What are you, a sunlight essentialist? A Greenwich Mean Time fetishist?

Sally: But… won’t this have implications on wider society? What will happen if everyone can just choose their own definitions of time, of day and night? How do we make sure that we’re not getting into a situation where some people decide to always keep their time at between 6-8pm, in order live in a perpetual “Happy Hour,” never working? What happens if these same people go to a bunch of bars and insist that all their drinks should be cheaper, no matter what time the bartender thinks it is? What about opening and closing hours of businesses? How will they cater to trans-timers?

Greg: Of course not, that is ridiculous scaremongering designed to suppress my liberty. Nobody would ever try to exploit trans-time for a “Happy Hour” discount! You are the worst of all oppressors and complicit in my suffering as a minority. Trans-time is time! There is no debate! I will fight for the greatest human rights battle of all time – liberation of all trans-time people, free choice of time zones and an end to cis-time supremacy!

Sally: Look, I still just don’t understand any of this. I am trying to have a reasonable conversation. What about my own right to define time, and my freedom of speech? What about just… facts?

Greg: You’re the most disgusting fascist that has ever existed. This whole conversation has taken a huge toll on my mental health, and is massively contributing to the endemic violence and discrimination trans-timers face. The suicide rates are incredibly high. Your rhetoric is directly causing trans-time deaths. I am getting in touch with our boss and reporting you for hate speech, you abusive troll witch! You deserve to be punched, raped and murdered for deliberately mis-time-zoning me like this.

Sally: What?!? This has been a private conversation between you and me! I’ve been trying to understand you, but you’ve made very little sense to me and been incredibly hostile… Are you… going to… apologize for this outburst? No? Alright then… I’ll be bringing this up with our boss as well, then. Perhaps even the police. I might even quit because I really don’t feel safe around you now. I can’t believe you’re accusing ME of hating you, when you’re the one threatening ME! I even asked you this morning if you remembered the sunscreen today because I didn’t want you to get sunburned like last week!

Greg: And JUST you deliberately mis-timed me AGAIN!!!!!!!!! Trans-time-phobe!!!!!!!!! Die in a fire, cis-time scum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sally: You know what... F**k trying to understand this. This abuse isn’t worth it. Please never ever contact me again…

OP posts:
Ereshkigal · 30/06/2018 12:55

Wow, that is really good. So clever Wine(it's trans evening). I think you pretty much created a parallel universe of transactivism! All the themes were there.

NotTerfNorCis · 30/06/2018 13:01

Very good. So in the first version, Greg recognises he has a condition and is willing to fit it around reality. In the second, he tries to bend everyone else's reality around his condition. Good analogy.

CompeteHalfAMile · 30/06/2018 13:08

Wine Evening all, excellent work.

hipsterfun · 30/06/2018 13:28

You’ve woken me IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT for this? How inconsiderate!

mynameisntLinda · 30/06/2018 13:38

Great piece

Cascade220 · 30/06/2018 13:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PurpleCrowbar · 30/06/2018 14:02

That's brilliant Grin.

WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice · 30/06/2018 14:55

Enjoyable to read, very funny, but I am worried you might give the first world entitled narcissists ideas and trans time will be upon us. All the politicians will be 'progressively' drafting laws to make telling the time a hate crime.

Ereshkigal · 30/06/2018 15:07

You know it's coming!

TellsEveryoneRealFacts · 30/06/2018 16:04

Spot on.

WhereDoWeBeginToCovetClarice · 30/06/2018 16:41

Op do you have a blog?

This is too good to publish only here.

BeyondRaggydoll · 30/06/2018 17:08
Grin
heresyandwitchcraft · 30/06/2018 18:14

Thanks for the lovely feedback. I wrote it specifically only for Mumsnet as the time thing was brought up on a previous thread here, and the more I thought about it, the more the parallels were clear. So it got too long!
You are all doing fabulous work in this debate!
Morning Gin all around, and hope you enjoyed the sun tonight! Wink

OP posts:
CompeteHalfAMile · 30/06/2018 18:17

Good moaning Brew

birdbandit · 30/06/2018 18:20

Good work!

Bingpot · 30/06/2018 18:32

This is absolutely brilliant, thanks for sharing OP!

Pratchet · 30/06/2018 20:21

Brilliant perfect analogy

LastTrainEast · 30/06/2018 20:36

Brilliant!

MipMipMip · 30/06/2018 20:38

Excellent.

sanluca · 30/06/2018 20:52

Very well done, gold star! Smile

QuizteamBleakley · 30/06/2018 21:04

Absolutely superb, bravo!

TokenBritPoshOfCourse · 30/06/2018 21:11

Love it! Well done.

ImMissHannigan · 30/06/2018 21:16

Absolutely spot on! Good morning to you all

Ereshkigal · 30/06/2018 21:39

Good morning? Catch up, it's 20 past 1 in the afternoon bigots. You're on the wrong side of history!

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