Trans gender inmates must be allowed make-up

[BiologyIsReal]

Can't find the article on line but today's print Daily Telegraph reported that transgender prisoners must have access to make-up. Inspectors from the Independent Monitoring Board said 12 trans gender inmates at HMP Littlehey (Cambridgeshire) had been unable to "fully live in gender" as they could not buy cosmetics such as lipstick, mascara and blusher from the Avon catalogue.

Apparently a previous report revealed now the equalities governor had introduced pop up shops to allow trans gender inmates to buy female clothing such as skirts, bras and dresses.

Of course if you can't access skirts, lipstick and all the faldoodlery that makes you a woman then you can't possibly be a woman can you?

Welcome to the parallel universe of what makes you a woman. Checks own betrousered legs and bare face in the mirror and ponders....

My understanding is this, based on a mate who did some prison time in their youth, & not only is this a while ago but also this friend isn't always a reliable reporter, so if I'm out of date or plain wrong please can someone correct me!

If you are in jail for a reasonably lengthy period of time, you are allowed to work (think friend was making cleaning cloths & similar products). This is a privilege & you don't get to do it if you haven't been 'good' or if you are likely to be dangerous eg. not to be trusted with the scissors.

You earn pocket money, basically, & get to spend it on luxury items like tobacco, toiletries or food treats. Obviously the items available are carefully considered - nothing you could hurt yourself or someone else with.

If I've got this right, I can't really see a problem with makeup. That's a harmless luxury item; no one needs it or is hugely deprived if they can't have it but equally it's a perk item that might cheer someone (male or female) up & encourage them to carry on being 'good' during their sentence.

I can see two potential ways it might be problematic.

1. if it's allowed to prisoners of one sex but not the other
2. if it's being supplied rather than bought as a treat, because of some nebulous blather about certain prisoners 'needing' makeup as part of their identity requirements...

More information required really!

I'm going to hazard a guess that the makeup stuff is viewed as evidence that you are "living as a woman" in a man's prison.

And this evidence counts towards proof of your suitability to get a move to a women's prison. Therefore anyone who is after a move to a women's prison would need to be able to demonstrate that they've been using makeup.

I'm also guessing that the evidence of living as a woman stuff is clothes and make-up only.

So for any bloke who does not identify as a woman but wants a transfer to a women's prison, he'd need to start using makeup. And I'd further suggest that this is why certain people are now demanding makeup.

My issue with this is if it's supplied via some additional allowance or benefit. Make up does not make one a woman. This is yet another example of the trojan horse sexual fetishists hijacking the narrative of the genuinely gender dysmorphic, to fulfil their porn soaked MRA fantasies.
Where are our DLF on this thread?

Why does anyone need makeup in prison?

To demonstrate the "living as a woman" requirement, Angry.

Hypothetical of course but wonder how a female prisoner in a female prison would "live as a man" in the female prison environment? How would they prove to the authorities that they are living as a man and therefore be eligible for sexual reassignment surgery?

So when deployed and the only 'makeup' available was cam cream and clothes were uniform, was l no longer able to class myself as a 'woman' ffs

popchyk just walk like you're a mediocre white man!

Sorry, that was a bit flippant, but I love that advice to women to combat 'imposter syndrome'. Credit to Sarah Hagi (no idea if she's gender critical, just love her suggestion).

And I would have thought that make-up would provide the perfect way to smuggle drugs into prison.

That is why they cannot have it sent in but must buy it from the for profit prisons that house them. How exactly the jails will address this new requirement that people be able to "fully live in gender" is unlikely to be ordering from a catalogue.

*How would they prove to the authorities that they are living as a man and therefore be eligible for sexual reassignment surgery?&

Swearing a lot and farting, obviously.

It would make sense for prisoners in equivalent prison levels of either male or female estates to have access to equivalent products and services. If this is a move that's addresses a previous non equivalence then that's a good thing.

OK, so an open list makes some sense in theory, with everyone allowed to buy anything... but.. why would a man buy a bra (assuming no boob job, or long-term hormone usage to self-grow them)? I mean I wouldn't wear the things if I didn't have massive boobs. I have my suspicions about why a man would buy one though, and I don't know if masterbatory aids are commonly allowed in prison - I feel like there's probably a reason they don't have open lists across women's and men's prisons though, and that is probably part of it.

If I was petite of nork I'd never wear a bra again, but then I don't find them arousing, so.

Tampons, pads and mooncups should be free to women. As many as needed.

Make up should be available to purchase, using prison wages, to both sexes.

The fact that women are having to ration sanpro in prison is ridiculous and unacceptable.

Do women in women’s prisons have access to the Avon catalogue?

if you need make-up to 'feel like a woman' you don't know what it's like to be a woman

Actually the prison context is a very interesting one when it comes to ‘living as a woman’.
In what ways do female and male prisoners live differently when in prison? In what ways are male and female prisoners treated differently.

A FOI request to the prison service and to whoever oversees the gender recognition committees could generate some interesting data

I suppose a bio female doesn't need to try to prove a point. She doesn't need to prove she's female because it's obvious to everyone what she is, without wearing makeup, jewellery, and all the rest of the gubbins. There is something inherently female about being a woman - even if she isn't a girlie girl. I don't even think Caitlyn Jenner is convincing as a woman.

Exactly MsBeaujangles. I'd love to know the prison authorities' criteria for 'living as a woman' in prison. I'd bet a lot of money that makeup figures in there.

My feeling is that the criteria for womanhood in prison is:

• Using a female name in public
• Using makeup
• Wearing dresses and skirts sometimes

Erm, and that is it. Do that for a while and you are then eligible for a move. And if you don't do those things then you won't get a move.

So, follow the motivation back. I want to move to a women's prison. So what criteria do I need to meet to get that move?

I was trying to find the thread on this, I read an article this morning... it shocked me so much.

Sorry for the fail link, but it’s made me really confused.

Wtf?

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5903073/amp/Taxpayers-face-168-000-bill-dozen-prisoners-sex-offenders-jail-plan-swap-genders.html

Disgraceful that female prisoners don't have access to enough sanpro. That should be supplied for free and in sufficient quantities

Female prisoners seem to be the absolute bottom of the pile dont they? No one seems to give a toss for their dignity and safety.

Whatever happened to judging a society on how it treats its most vulnerable?

So if it’s a case of equal access through the shop for makeup for both sexes I’m OK with that. If it’s a case of being supplied with makeup then hell no.