Guardian article - it's cruel to keep trans women from single sex spaces

[Procrastinator1]

I've never started a thread before, but I am very disappointed with this opinion piece and feel quite angry when I look at this and the reporting of the attack by "women", which is on a different thread.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/26/trans-women-single-sex-spaces-cruel-impossible

I know it is just that, an opinion piece, but I am unhappy with the "integrity" of the piece. I feel a letter coming on, but sometimes despair about the voice natal women have.

Interested to know more about the author's feminist community, "Level Up."

Reader, I read the Trans Ally guide linked in the article so you don't have to.

Educate yourself and remember that nobody owes you an explanation or an answer to a question. One trans or gender nonconforming person can’t be a representative for all of us. Don’t treat us like encyclopedias. That said, sometimes there’s only so much Google can do. If you feel you need to ask someone about something you don’t understand, respectfully acknowledge that you are not entitled to an answer, but you wish to educate yourself and are hoping for advice.

WALK ON EGGSHELLS AT ALL TIMES. Don't ask, but then you won't know as these Byzantine social rules and conventions are not all available on google, so do ask, but be prepared to be slapped down. Such is the life of the aspiring "trans ally".

Haha! "Educate yourself" but don't ever ask questions?!? Aren't questions part of learning??

An interesting definition of "gender non conforming":

Gender nonconforming: A person who views their gender identity as one of many possible genders beyond strictly female or male. This is an umbrella term that can encompass other terms such as “gender creative,”“gender expansive,”“gender^ variant,”“genderqueer,”“gender^fluid”, “gender neutral,”“bigender,” “androgynous,” or “gender diverse.” Such people feel that they exist psychologically between genders, as on a spectrum, or beyond the notion of the male and female binary paradigm.

Suzi is now three years old and was assigned female at birth. Yet when Suzi was a toddler, her parents noticed she only played^ with boy’s toys and, in pretend play, she was always the daddy. Suzi’s parents allowed Suzi to continue to express herself, even in traditionally masculine ways, without criticism or censure. While Suzi probably wouldn’t be identified as transgender at this point, she gives us a perfect example of how youth begin to express their gender identity - which may be seen as nonconforming -and claim their gender expression at very young ages.^

It's like approaching a guru, but you get less interpersonal warmth in return.

Suzi is a tomboy, and that's just not right, which is why we should start making plans to have Suzi's breast removed as soon as legally allowed.

Yes indeed.

Level Up

"We want feminism to be easy to understand: Plenty of people care about gender equality who haven’t read lots of feminist theory or been involved in activism. Level Up is the place for them.

We want to have fun: Living with sexism can be tiring. We want to make campaigning as fun and enjoyable as possible and try not to take ourselves too seriously all the time."

Very helpful to have clear examples of those aspirations so clearly laid out in the Guardian article. I, for one, had failed to notice that feminism is about gender equality rather than being centered on the rights and needs of women and children. I'd say that I'd obviously been in need of more playfulness tho' the following childhood recollection should put the lie to that.

Ever since the young arranfan was fed a birthday meal of Twiglets pressed into a peak of fork-dragged mashed potato to represent a thatched hut there has never, ever been a requirement for people to offer to share their Twiglets with me.

Wouldn't want anyone to think the memory has cast a shadow over every subsequent birthday or is a reminder that the birthday thatched hut has been it for celebratory food prepared by others. Never once had a birthday cake made for me. Not that I'm bitter.

I just want to add, accepting trans women into natal women's safe spaces wouldn't have saved Naomi. Her murder had nothing to do with that side of the debate, so she really shouldn't have been mentioned. In fact, the way that many TRAs are using Naomi's death to further an unrelated agenda doesn't sit well with me.

Do you think I'm deluding myself by trying to comfort myself by imagining that the author of this piece (and those of similar ilk) are about 15 and just need to grow the fuck up?

No question male violence is the greatest human rights crisis the world has ever known.
That is one of many reasons women need sex segregated spaces.

Diddums.

I've no doubt when all this becomes much more mainstream this lot will be told to fuck off. The writer sounds plain stupid

The idea that women and girls should act as human shields for men who are just as afraid of men as women are strikes me as bizarre.
Particularly when doing so opens the door to predators.

Over and over I come back to the same thing. It appears to be an effort to drive women out of the public sphere and revert social progress back to the 1850s.

I suspect Bewilderness I am going to become a feminist joke too, having run away to sea at 19 and having given birth twice without opiates.

She’s a bit confused isn’t she? Apparently sex segregated spaces aren’t necessary, but then the government doesn’t do enough to protect women. Which is it?

Shes asking how sex segregated spaces could ever work - oh gee, I don’t know, the same way they’ve worked for the past few centuries, before a bunch of narcissists decided everything has to be about them.

Ever since the young arranfan was fed a birthday meal of Twiglets pressed into a peak of fork-dragged mashed potato to represent a thatched hut there has never, ever been a requirement for people to offer to share their Twiglets with me.

I'm not surprised! have you had counselling?

In fact, the way that many TRAs are using Naomi's death to further an unrelated agenda doesn't sit well with me.

This. Hmmm, emotional blackmail to control women with no empathy for the person whose suffering they are appropriating or their family. That's a new one (not)

The idea that women and girls should act as human shields for men who are just as afraid of men as women are strikes me as bizarre.

Yes, that's a good way of putting it. But I guess that's what women do, isn't it? Put other people first. Minimise their own needs.

Am very disappointed in the Guardian for publishing this crap. They seemed to be getting better, but in the past couple of days we've had both this and the Shon Faye one. They never publish an alternative view.

It seems to me to come down to the fact that despite most people’s desire to be polite, inclusive and sensitive to the feelings of others the only way the public will agree with letting trans men into women’s only spaces such as rape survivors centres is if people believe that trans women are actually women. I believe most politicians, especially those on the left who tend to see the world through a postmodern lens believe trans women are real women. The less ideological general public however? I just don’t know.

Perhaps a 74-page guide on how to interact respectfully with women wouldn't come amiss

“Sorry, not a male body. Some female bodies have penises- just fucking get over it okay?”

This is it in a nut shell. The postmodern social constructivists on the left believe that. However many people don’t. Most people are happy to use whatever pronoun someone would prefer, but many (perhaps most?) only do it out of politeness and don’t actually believe it. Many people simply don’t believe that some female bodies have penises. What would you realistically propose to do about that? I’m genuinely asking and not trying to be rude or upsetting.

As GG reportedly said ‘we’ve got to discriminate against somebody’

So they know what they are doing, and decided to discriminate against GIRLS? In GIRL Guiding which is set up for the very reason of empowering girls?