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Original poster

Guardian article - it's cruel to keep trans women from single sex spaces

98 replies

Procrastinator1 · 26/06/2018 20:36

I've never started a thread before, but I am very disappointed with this opinion piece and feel quite angry when I look at this and the reporting of the attack by "women", which is on a different thread.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/26/trans-women-single-sex-spaces-cruel-impossible

I know it is just that, an opinion piece, but I am unhappy with the "integrity" of the piece. I feel a letter coming on, but sometimes despair about the voice natal women have.

Interested to know more about the author's feminist community, "Level Up."

OP posts:
PeakPants · 26/06/2018 22:09

41% of trans people have experience abuse have they, and that means that women all have to put up and shut up because they have such a hard time.

I think most of the stats are based on self-reporting. I am sure that they do suffer prejudice and unkindness a lot of the time. It cannot be easy. But I think they all assume that women have 'cis-privilege' and skip around with not a care in the world. That's the difference- many women empathise with trans people and recognise that they are often oppressed and suffer prejudice. Some trans people and their advocates on the other hand seem to chuck that back in women's faces, telling them to grow up, educate themselves or saying that actually, sexual harassment is really sexy and empowering and who wouldn't like men perving over you. The only thing they seem to see is the advantage of being a woman which to them is nobody ever questioning whether you are a woman.

Women suffer oppression and prejudice and abuse too. At least at the same rate and in some areas at a much higher rate than trans women.

Angryresister · 26/06/2018 22:33

When are men, including those who think they aren't, going to respect women's boundaries? It is not cruel for us to want meet each other. It is not whether people pass or not. Our needs need respecting. We have spent years building up our spaces and seen them being broken down, our groups destroyed and our thoughts controlled. Enough.

BonnieF · 26/06/2018 22:38

It’s a standard Guardian opinion piece. No facts, data, evidence or analysis. Lots of assertion of victim status and demands for special treatment. All payed for by somebody else, of course....

Identity politics will destroy the Left.

Picassospaintbrush · 26/06/2018 22:41

PeakPants is really peaking

Ereshkigal · 26/06/2018 22:42

I’m not alone in identifying the male member as the basic problem. Last June, the Toronto women’s spa Body Blitz told a potential client that trans women wanting to visit must have had gender reassignment surgery. I immediately found this unfair – while also understanding that the sight of a penis in a space reserved for women could be unexpected, even unappealing.

Bothered by the gap between my ideals and my discomfort, I considered the warmth and simple humanity of many trans women I’ve met. I thought not just about their traumas, but also how much they might enjoy the spa’s lovely water circuit, let alone a chance to feel recognized.

I realized I had to get over it: A penis is no big deal. Beyond that, demanding that anyone have surgery to be considered a real woman runs counter to every feminist ideal of informed, empowered choice.

Picassospaintbrush · 26/06/2018 22:48

I realized I had to get over it: A penis is no big deal.

Poor misguided fool.

ApplesinmyPocket · 26/06/2018 22:54

It's been two years or more since I realised with a sinking heart that the Guardian was no longer the newspaper for me. It's all compassion and virtue and righteous support of the underdog - unless the underdog is female, in which case sod off with your whining bigotry.

ApplesinmyPocket · 26/06/2018 22:55

In fact, even more sadly, I now feel the same about the Labour Party, too.

MsSensibleWay · 26/06/2018 22:55

I clicked the link on 'how to be a trans ally'. It's 74 pages long!!!

That Guardian article was all over the place, bad even by Guardian standards. It's all just so much nonsense I can't get my head round the fact that people actually believe it.

Deathgrip · 26/06/2018 22:59

But I think they all assume that women have 'cis-privilege' and skip around with not a care in the world.

And why do they think that? Because their Male upbringing was exactly like that. I’m sure many trans people face discrimination and abuse, but that doesn’t mean they understand the discrimination abuse that women and girls face.

LangCleg · 26/06/2018 23:03

Deary fucking me. Being pro-women and girls and asserting their rights to privacy and dignity is cruel now, is it?

Well, um, let me think...

... oh, I know!

Colour me cruel. Am I bovvered? No. Nope. Nopetty nope.

There. That's that conversation done and dusted.

Next?

LangCleg · 26/06/2018 23:04

I clicked the link on 'how to be a trans ally'. It's 74 pages long!!!

How detailed is this allyship? Does one have to clip one's toenails in a particular woke way or something? Do I have to share my Twiglets? What?

Picassospaintbrush · 26/06/2018 23:06

Gushing is mandatory Lang.

LangCleg · 26/06/2018 23:12

Gushing is mandatory Lang.

I'm not really the effusive type. Also, I don't share Twiglets.

Is there an exam at the end of the 74 pages?

DietCoke87 · 26/06/2018 23:12

I understand that it's an opinion piece, but I can't believe they* couldn't think of a single reason why women might need to "exclude" trans women from some single sex spaces other than that they (cis women) are cruel, evil witches. Also, hate the way "women's rights" was in scare quotes.

*I'm trying to use gender neutral pronouns for everyone now, so it becomes second nature.

OlennasWimple · 26/06/2018 23:16

"Women! Be nice! You're so mean!"

We never hear this otherwise, of course.

Only when we say no

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 26/06/2018 23:30

The Guardian has been overtly misogynist for years now. ICBA. And they're not getting a penny from me again.

AngryAttackKittens · 26/06/2018 23:37

Women are not obligated to "get over" finding penises "unappealing" no matter how much the owners of said penises want them to.

FireFartingDuck · 26/06/2018 23:54

Lovely stuff. Get over it, women. Penis is here to stay, whether you like it or not. Your objections are just because you find it unappealing. It's all just snobby elitism.Hmm

AngryAttackKittens · 26/06/2018 23:58

Not sure I've ever gushed. If I did my ancestors would be horrified. Maybe the 74 pages of suggestions were intended for Americans?

Picassospaintbrush · 27/06/2018 00:00

Well, sadly as I have said before, when young women are being told choking and anal is expected because porn says so then this what you wind up with.

SPOFS · 27/06/2018 00:07

I teach university students. I honestly don't think I would even give that a 3rd. What a mess. Random emotional blackmail.

Ereshkigal · 27/06/2018 00:55

They can have all the twiglets, I'm happy to share. And the marmite

Ereshkigal · 27/06/2018 00:57

There. That's that conversation done and dusted.

Yes, there isn't much more to be said really, is there?