Transgender people can be turned away from female only spaces government says

[mammyoftwo]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5880533/amp/Women-allowed-bar-transgender-people-female-changing-rooms-toilets-ministers.html?ico=amp_mostReadNews

Apologies for the source, it's from the daily fail. However, if true it's definitely a victory worth celebrating!!

Here is a link from The Independent www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/transgender-people-no-right-single-sex-spaces-government-penny-mordaunt-toilets-changing-rooms-a8414771.html

A Government Equalities Office spokesperson told The Independent: “Since we announced our intention to reform the Gender Recognition Act in 2017, we have been clear we will not amend the Equality Act 2010.

“Any reform of the Gender Recognition Act will not change the protected characteristics in the Equality Act nor the exemptions under the Equality Act that allow provision for single and separate sex spaces.”

I think they are talking about self-ID. It wont be the case for people with a GRC. They will have access. That is the problem.

Apologies for my ignorance on the matter. Just to check, if someone born with a penis gets a gender recognition certificate, have they had to have their penis cut off in order to do so?

mammyoftwo - no

"Just to check, if someone born with a penis gets a gender recognition certificate, have they had to have their penis cut off in order to do so?"

No - although 87% of trans women have wither had, or want vaginoplasty:

www.thetaskforce.org/static_html/downloads/reports/reports/ntds_full.pdf

... you don't need it to get a GRC. This is because some people either don't want surgery, or are unable to undergo surgery for medical or other reasons.

However, the complex and frankly rather marvellous micro-surgery involved is a little more than "cutting off the penis". In the hands of the best surgeons, like the top ones in Thailand, it's mainly a case of redistributing the soft tissues to return them to their original feminine configuration (we all start with essentially female genitalia).

So for example, the labia majora and the scrotum are formed of the same tissue. In the typical boy, the tissue fuses together along the raphe line to form a scrotum and on the typical girl it doesn't fuse and forms the labia majora instead. So, part of vaginoplasty, is to open the scrotum along the raphe line and give the tissues the typical female configuration (or rather "return them" to their original configuration) rather than the typical male one.

Similar thing with the penis/clitoris - they are the same organ that develops along different routes according to hormonal influence rather than different organs altogether like say a kidney and finger are.

I already have a GRC.

I also pass, so even if you managed to change the law and revoke my GRC, I would still be in female spaces, and you wouldn't know anything about it.

But don't worry - last time I was in a public toilet, I just went to a cubicle, had a pee, and then washed my hands. No one died.

As usual Wakame posts shite.

www.bournemouth.gov.uk/councildemocratic/Statistics/Documents/JSNA/GenderReassignment.pdf

you wouldn't know anything about it.

I expect women do notice. We usually do.

I'm not sure what about this thread would indicate that most people wanted to read a detailed description of genitalia.

^www.bournemouth.gov.uk/councildemocratic/Statistics/Documents/JSNA/GenderReassignment.pdf^

Is very out of date and ignores many operations carried out overseas and, even if those flaws were overlooked, does not say that Wakame was wrong as you claim.

"As usual Wakame posts shite."

What do you think your link disproves?

"I'm not sure what about this thread would indicate that most people wanted to read a detailed description of genitalia."

mammyoftwo (the OP) asked "have they had to have their penis cut off". This suggested that she was unfamiliar with the facts of the procedure she was referring to. It was a teachable moment.

"I expect women do notice. We usually do."

@Noqont, How would you know how many you don't notice?

wakame what do you think women who do notice do?

"No - although 87% of trans women have wither had, or want vaginoplasty:"

According to GIRES only 5% of all transgender people have sought any medical treatment. That includes therapy, not just hormones and surgery.

That figure is expected to rise to 20%, but it's obviously bollocks that 87% have had or want the surgery.

@Juzzal, Wakame spoke of trans women but you are trying to argue against it using statistics about trans people in general which you know includes many people who don't want surgery.

Wakame spoke of trans women but you are trying to argue against it using statistics about trans people in general which you know includes many people who don't want surgery.

If these people will be able to get a GRC under self-id, then they should be included in discussions of this topic.

Are you suggesting that transwomen are a small minority of 'trans people in general'?

what do you think women who do notice do?

Oohh oohhh moss i know!!! I know!!!!

How would you know how many you don't notice?

I'm pretty observant. I can't imagine a single person that I looked at has slipped through the net tbh. Women do notice these things. We have done since small girls. Just because we haven't said anything, didn't stare at you or didn't make you feel uncomfortable, don't think we didn't notice. We did. Its a woman thing.

t's mainly a case of redistributing the soft tissues to return them to their original feminine configuration (we all start with essentially female genitalia).

Incorrect. On both counts. You cannot just shuffle around soft tissues and create working female reproductive parts. The embryo does not start as a full default female - that’s a misunderstanding of the developmental pathways involved.

As I’ve said, multiple times, I have worked in the field of genetics and developmental biology for decades. Your grasp of science is either poor or you are deliberately misrepresenting.

It doesn’t matter where an operation is carried out. All you can do is remove some parts via penectomy and orchidectomy and create something that’s a rough facsimile of female parts. The look, roughly, but not the function.

Humans cannot change sex.

When I used to be a toilet attendant, I had to let them in but that would be my cue to start mopping the floor so no-one could be hanging around the communal bit. I also used to supervise mens ones and if I saw guys going into a cubicle together I used to bang on the door for them to get out. I'm mean like that.

I'm pretty observant. I can't imagine a single person that I looked at has slipped through the net tbh. Women do notice these things. We have done since small girls. Just because we haven't said anything, didn't stare at you or didn't make you feel uncomfortable, don't think we didn't notice. We did. Its a woman thing.

Human evolution helps us know.

We use touch, sight,sounds and smells to differentiate males from females because males are a risk to us.

I can smell males, I don't even need to see them.

I gather males can't smell other males as well as women can.

I can smell what I describe as a bollocks smell, if a male has been in a closed room for over an hour.

My eyes start to water and I can feel the male hormones hit the back of my throat, the smell is that strong to me, if I enter a meeting room full of males that have been in there a while.