Incoherent environmentalism

[Norther]

www.theguardian.com/fashion/2018/jun/19/asos-pledge-to-ban-mohair-cashmere-and-silk-from-2019

But surely artificial fibres cause pollution and natural fibres like cotton depend on huge farms that destroy biodiversity.

I am putting it under feminism chat because of overlap of interests. May need moving.

Clicky link
www.theguardian.com/fashion/2018/jun/19/asos-pledge-to-ban-mohair-cashmere-and-silk-from-2019

I can't open the link. Is it to do with animal cruelty?

Thanks sciencelogic I am an utter idiot at those links.

Mohair is terrible. Yes it should be banned.

Is the circus back in town?

Sorry, I'm muddling it with angora from rabbits. That should be banned.

Yes it is to do with cruelty. A blanket ban on cashmere and wool products isn't needed but animal welfare standards should be maintained.

Sheep have to be shorn- it is cruel not to but it needs to be done properly. So far as cashmere I understand it is taken in the spring - the animals wouldn't survive in the winter if it were collected later.

I don't have strong feelings for the welfare of silk worms.

Are you thinking that while animal welfare is a concern, the alternatives are as damaging if not worse? Like the synthetic materials that don't biodegrade or the air miles needed to source reliable natural materials. (As a couple of quick examples)

Is that question to me? That isn't what I said. I didn't say replace these items- I said to source them ethically.

Animal welfare troubles me greatly.

Lass
I thought the same about the silk worms, it's the same for lobsters isn't it?

Sheep have to be shorn- it is cruel not to but it needs to be done properly

Yes - there's a problem that the value of a fleece may not cover the cost of shearing the sheep so presumably that exacerbates the likelihood of rough handling. (Disclaimer... most of what I know about sheep comes from seeing the inimitable Sheep Show a few times).

Maybe the most ethical approach to clothing (barring clearly bad stuff like angora) is to buy fewer but more durable items and not launder them more than is necessary?

Yes my heart is not bleeding for silk worms any more than for the lactobacillus in my yakult.

We need a fairtrade for animals type branding for the rest.

Lass
I thought the same about the silk worms, it's the same for lobsters isn't it?

But there is a level of sentience to lobsters which silk worms don't have. I don't eat lobster or crab.

Sheep stock, certainly in the UK, have considerable value. There is for example a hugely complicated area of law in Scotland about the calculation of the value of sheep stock to be acquired by a landlord from an outgoing tenant. This is big money.

The realities of animal welfare in the farming industry are always protected from public view, so any media exposure is a good thing.
But forests cleared, water tables polluted, plastics everywhere and ancient sacred sites destroyed etc, it is hard to know where to even begin to make a real difference. We are disconnected from the reality.

Lobsters may well be sentient beings. I accept your point, but does that include fish as well?

ah, that's why I bought my clothes from charity shops when Grunge was in, in 1993.

Love fur sustainably and ethically sourced. Such a shame I cant ever wear any of it here

I would never wear fur.

The idea of fur being ethically sourced is verging on obscene.

No, that was because I'm stingy. But, here's the rub - there is never a perfect environmental solution - that is, there is never a course of action which is without environmental impacts.
I've done sustainability appraisal in the past - basically, a rather dull process in which you look at all the potential pros and cons of a given course of action (I'm a planner - it was "building on this site rather than another site) and it's a matter of finding the least worst option, I'm afraid.
Nothing incoherent about that, any more than it's incoherent not to buy a Jaguar because you still have to pay for a Volvo.

lass I am not a veggie so to me its no different. Why not use all the animal rather than waste some

That argument is incoherent. One could argue that for leather goods made from the hides of cattle slaughtered for meat. Mink, fox, ermine are bred solely to be skinned for fur. No one eats their meat.

There's the demand for metals and minerals for our phones etc. Farming methods means animals are just caught up in the same demand driven system. It's depressing.

Er... remind me why we had mink in this country in the first place...