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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

High court refuses gender neutral passports

93 replies

OunceOfFlounce · 22/06/2018 12:09

Seems like a little reason to be cheerful this Friday perhaps?

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-44575229

OP posts:
alexpolistigers · 23/06/2018 13:30

I would refuse to move seats if asked to do so by a haredi or other religiously motivated man. I would politely ask the aircraft staff to move the other passenger.

I would happily swap with DH so that an unaccompanied minor could sit down. DH is also no threat to anyone, but he understands that it is not about him.

Many years ago, DH and I flew to Ireland together in August. For locals, it was quite warm, and they were all in shorts and T-shirts. But we had just come from a 42-degree heatwave in Greece (DH is Greek), and DH was freezing in Ireland. He was wearing a heavy jacket, and it must have looked suspicious, as it was full of odd bulges (presents for people stuffed into pockets!). When we landed in Dublin, he was the only person in a coat, and when we queued at the passport gates, he was pulled out of line by security and thoroughly checked. He was not offended. He did not accuse them of racism or anti-male bias, or anything else. Mature adults understand that it is not about them individually, and that safety procedures are there for a reason.

Aridane · 23/06/2018 14:45

Thank you, ally - I,hadn’t been able to find the judgment online and was coming to this thread to see if anyone could link it!

Aridane · 23/06/2018 15:22

Have skimmed the judgment.

So it seems the government is currently undertaking a comprehensive review of whether to include ‘x’ as an option in addition to M and F (as some other countriesdo).

So the current application for judicial review was premature because the review hasn’t yet concluded. And the government’s current policy not unlawful.

Pratchet · 23/06/2018 15:27

Yesterday 20:57 noeffingidea

I don't think airlines should accept unaccompanied minors anyway

Good Lord, the entire world must change to accommodate this movement

OlennasWimple · 23/06/2018 15:40
Waddlelikeapenguin · 23/06/2018 16:22

Snappity I don't think airlines should accept unaccompanied minors anyway.

AIBU is that way ---->
Off you pop, we want to talk about the rights of women & girls.

As others have said any man who doesnt understand why they are perceived to be a greater danger to a child than a woman is of great concern. DH is generally adored by children but would move without question or insult - i am actually struggling to think of any man i know who wouldnt...

LassWiADelicateAir · 23/06/2018 22:05

This is interesting- from Elan-Cane's twitter feed. Only 2 Tory signatories (Peter Bottomley was very supportive of Stella Creasy's move to enable funding of abortions for women from NI so I assume he has signed because he thinks it's the right thing to do)

I see one of the sponsors is one of my least favourite mps- Mhairi Black. Given her woeful attendance and voting record one might have thought she could have found something more pressing on which to focus attention.

www.parliament.uk/edm/2017-19/175

JamesBlonde1 · 23/06/2018 22:13

I get very irritated that court time and money is spent on shit like this when there are so many more important matters Judges could be adjudicating upon.

Ihuntmonsters · 23/06/2018 22:16

I would have thought that there is a much simpler solution to the problems that 'faced by people whose identities are neither male nor female; believes that people are compromised and diminished as a result of inappropriate gender references on their personal identity information; acknowledges that all passports issued by HM Passport Office are currently gender­ specific and it is therefore not possible to obtain a British passport that contains no reference to gendered identity etc etc

Remove all references to gender in passports and other identity documents and make all references to sex instead, male or female, with no option to 'self identify' so that passports are based on verified fact and not a matter of genderist faith.

LassWiADelicateAir · 23/06/2018 22:25

I get very irritated that court time and money is spent on shit like this when there are so many more important matters Judges could be adjudicating upon

Civil court waiting times in Scotland are pretty appalling and generally we process judicial matters faster than England.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 23/06/2018 22:54

Because I think it is poor parenting

Friends of mine live abroad

If their children couldn't fly unaccompanied then their parents would only see then once or twice a year rather than every school holiday

Some people have no fucking idea

Pratchet · 24/06/2018 03:52

Worked out why Christie lost. Biological sex of claimant.

Elasticity · 24/06/2018 05:22

I feel sorry for the gender fluid or non-conforming people negatively affected by this decision. I hope and trust it will pass in the years to come. The UK becomes more liberal all the time.

This decision would harm nobody.

MN is a great community but you are all so backwards when it comes to these modern liberal issues.

AsAProfessionalFekko · 24/06/2018 08:11

So who else could ask for and get changed to their passport then? Who pays for this? Where will the line be drawn? How many in a minority before changes are made? The Canadian person who says that despite being a father of 3 kids now states that he is a six year old girl - would a passport need to reflect his preferred status?

Pratchet · 24/06/2018 09:31

Elastic are you being sarcastic

R0wantrees · 24/06/2018 17:02

The purpose of a passport is to travel to other countries.

Identifying males and females may be of significance in some important situations.

All countries understand sex.

Gender ideology is not universally recognised or understood.

R0wantrees · 24/06/2018 17:09

It is possible on passports to add additional significant information.

It goes on a particular page.

To not recognise the wider implications of changing the way that such an important document as a passport records or removes the factual status of sex is naive at best and dangerous at worst.

R0wantrees · 24/06/2018 17:46

cf my comment previous discussion where this matter was discussed in some detail in the middle of the thread:

"My thoughts are that with regards passports then sex indication matters more. Since their primary purpose is for international travel rather than id, I think there are a number of circumstances when the treatment of women / men would be different. Whilst I agree it is good that gender stereotypes are being broken down, this is happening differently throughout the the world.

There are other forms of id eg driving licences which can also be used for employment purposes where removing sex markers perhaps would be better changed"

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3245474-questions-from-a-liberal-feminist-to-the-rad-fems?pg=7&messages=25

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