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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Supporting men who break stereotypes.

329 replies

lurker33 · 20/06/2018 14:39

I've said this on another thread, but I'd like to explore it a bit further...

In my opinion the only thing that differentiates boys from girls are their primary and secondary sexual characteristics. Girls can do anything boys can do, and boys can do anything girls can do, barring those things that are required to procreate.

The only thing holding people back are societal expectations. We need to be challenging these, not reinforcing them with this gender identity nonsense.

A man wearing a dress and wearing makeup however should be applauded for being courageous and breaking stereotypes.

If a man dresses and acts 'like a woman' and calls himself 'a woman' then he is a parody of a woman (in the ironic sense) because the only way he can do this is to perform deeply flawed stereotypes.

Men in dresses and make up insisting on being recognised as women is therefore exactly the same as blackface and is deeply insulting to women.

Why is it ok to insult women with the lie that men are woman, but not ok to tell the truth and say men can never become women?

As a result I cannot support the GRC or self ID. These are red herrings and should be repealed and rejected.

OP posts:
PeakPants · 23/06/2018 12:01

it's the Equality Act that matters

I agree, but if you think that and agree that there are some services that need to be single sex and you know that this is not being provided at the moment, then why do you keep saying there is no problem because the government has said it won't reform it at the moment? That's what I don't get. I agree that the key to getting single sex segregation must lie in the Equality Act rather than the GRA because even a person with a GRC remains biologically their birth sex and it is the EA that potentially allows segregation based on biological sex. But what I don't get is that the issues are pointed out to you and then you suddenly pretend that you haven't read any of it (like the Stonewall point on the last thread- you were shown in black and white that Stonewall want to get rid of the exemptions and then you said that there was no evidence that they do). That is what comes across as a little bit confusing.

womanformallyknownaswoman · 23/06/2018 12:02

I'm thinking of starting a Flounce School to teach the styles, variances and deportment to carry off a flounce, for example, The Newcomer Flounce in virginal white; followed by The Eminent Flounce in colourful robes; and last but not least, The Venerable Flounce in the white robes and peaked hat of an expert.

lurker33 · 23/06/2018 12:16

The OP called self ID and the GRC red herrings

Yes, I did but not in the context you are referring to. Read the OP.

OP posts:
lurker33 · 23/06/2018 12:23

Daimbars - I think it would be fair enough for a service user to object and ask the service applies the EA exceptions if they were made to feel uncomfortable or threatened.

How would this help if users of a service were all happy to allow a transwoman access, and then later, there is a new service user who objects.... Are all the transwomen ejected? Somehow I don't think that would be practical.

Wouldn't it be more practical for there to be separate services for women, separate services for transwomen, separate services for transmen, and separate services for men? Of course the trans community would have to lobby for this, and I would support them if they wanted to do so.

OP posts:
NatLuc · 23/06/2018 13:06

@SilverDoe - Course you can ask, not rude at all, I’m 28. :) I would be very interested in hearing about some of the things you friend had said.. but I am very sorry that you’ve lost a friend over this stuff.. that must have been painful for you. Flowers

@daimbars - Will keep you updated I’m sure! It’s very casual at the moment but she’s lovely Grin

lurker33 I think in an ideal world having separate services that are FOUR ways not ‘third space’ would be fine. But the funding would surely be a problem due to the small demographic using the transmen and transwomen services.

Ereshkigal · 23/06/2018 13:31

White American man who identifies as a female Filipino:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=wWPRATTYnYk

Ereshkigal · 23/06/2018 13:33

As per AsaProfessionalFekko s post.

Ereshkigal · 23/06/2018 13:34

Any thoughts? Daim?

Ereshkigal · 23/06/2018 13:35

Do you believe this person is Filipino? And do you believe they are a woman? I'm genuinely asking.

LangCleg · 23/06/2018 14:25

I'm thinking of starting a Flounce School to teach the styles, variances and deportment to carry off a flounce, for example, The Newcomer Flounce in virginal white; followed by The Eminent Flounce in colourful robes; and last but not least, The Venerable Flounce in the white robes and peaked hat of an expert.

Teehee! This is why I never flounce. I'd be back in thirty seconds for another last word. I think they call this self awareness! Wink

AsAProfessionalFekko · 23/06/2018 15:16

Its international women in engineering day today. #INWED18.

Just thought I'd mention it

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 23/06/2018 16:21

The old school transsexuals tended to identify with women rather than as women. They expressed humility rather than entitlement and it was for this tiny, genuinely vulnerable group that women made certain allowances.

The recent explosion in men who identify as women is made up of people with very different characteristics and objectives to the original group.

This new, far larger, more aggressive group seem to be essentially males who are sexually attracted to women and who have fetishes (a phenomenon specific to males). For obvious reasons they much prefer people to think of them as having been "born in the wrong body" rather than admitting that they are obsessed with sissy, forced feminisation and shemale porn and that acting this out in private is no longer enough. The stories of trans widows illustrate this phenomenon all too vividly.

Some suffer from gender dysphoria, others do not. But gender dysphoria is not necessarily benign. It's a condition that can adversely affect others. It sometimes expresses itself in antisocial invasive ways - rummaging in sanitary bins for used sanpro, getting sexually excited by listening to women using the loo, etc. The most common way it affects women is in a MtF seeking validation of their identities by accessing single sex spaces and gaining pleasure by violating women's boundaries.

For this group a third space will never be acceptable. Their validation is all important. These are the sort of people who seek to do the smear tests of women who have specifically asked for a female HCP. Their narcissism makes them almost impossible to deal with.

This is part of the motivation behind the Cotton Ceiling. If you're a man who identifies as a woman, what could better "prove" your true identity than sex with a lesbian. That these TRAs don't seem to have any idea that lesbians have spent their whole lives being told that the right dick will "cure" them just illustrates their total lack of empathy for women. This arrogance and stereotypically masculine sense of sexual entitlement to women's bodies is characteristic of the TRA agenda, and very telling.

TRAs have learned a lot from other groups. For example they have adopted the "born this way" narrative that was so successful for gay men and lesbians. This means that TRAs - and AGP/transvestites - have a lot to gain from child transition, largely because it provides cover for the very male sexual motivations behind many, maybe most, adult transitions.

Presenting the transgender community as a sort of super gay, super vulnerable group has convinced many people who have never looked at any of its claims at all critically. This is why Caitlyn Jenner was "brave and stunning" while Rachel Dolezal, a transracial woman, was slammed.

They have also successfully adopted the tactics of Muslim community leaders in quelling discussion of cultural misogyny by leveling accusations of Islamophobia. The seemingly constant trickle of grooming trials is reported, but little is said about the issues behind them. The TRAs copy this with #nodebate and endless, baseless accusations of transphobia.

The old transsexuals and the women who tolerated them have all been damaged by the current TRA agenda. Speaking for myself, I'm no longer prepared to let things go by on the nod. This group has proved itself hostile to women's interests.

happydappy2 · 23/06/2018 16:31

Prawn you are so spot on-great post.

happydappy2 · 23/06/2018 16:39

For me-what is happening in womens sports proves we have to stop the madness of the trans ideology. They have no respect for women at all.
Its also blatantly obvious that only pharma companies benefit from turning young adults into life long medical patients. We need to get this crap out of schools as soon as humanly possible-protect young confused teenagers from the unhelpful narrative currently being pushed on them.

womanformallyknownaswoman · 23/06/2018 16:47

Prawn

Well said

TransplantsArePlants · 23/06/2018 20:03

Prawn

Thanks for that post. Great summary for lurkers

thebewilderness · 23/06/2018 20:11

Teehee! This is why I never flounce. I'd be back in thirty seconds for another last word. I think they call this self awareness!

Me too. No matter how the flames shoot out the sides of my face I know I would never be able to stick the flounce because I am a notorious serial poster.
I am more likely to ghost than flounce.

thebewilderness · 23/06/2018 20:18

If people who presents as opposite to their birth sex had any empathy at all they would stay well away from refuges never mind apply for jobs there.

For some it represents the ultimate male dominance display.

spontaneousgiventime · 23/06/2018 20:24

Teehee! This is why I never flounce. I'd be back in thirty seconds for another last word. I think they call this self awareness!

Me three, but in my case it's stubbornness, I'd have to come back to have the last word and poke my tongue out. Not gonna happen, I have my comfy cushion here now.

spontaneousgiventime · 23/06/2018 20:26

For some it represents the ultimate male dominance display.

Yep, have power over them even at their most vulnerable. Sickening.

Pratchet · 23/06/2018 20:27

Thanks prawn I've screenshot. That is fab.

thebewilderness · 23/06/2018 20:31

It would be naive to think that repeal is not one possibility to be considered when putting forward amendments to the GRA.

thebewilderness · 23/06/2018 20:39

The government is funding lobbyists to go into schools and teach children that the toys they like to play with define their gender, and if the toy choice does not conform to social stereotypes they are transgender.

That is the government and transgender advocates actively harming children to satisfy a powerful lobbyist group.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 23/06/2018 21:07

Bewilderness, when the court cases brought by adults who were medically transitioned as children start heads will roll and lots of people will be nervously hoping no one remembers their role. It'll be far bigger than the PIE debacle. But how many maimed young people will have been through the gender mill by then?

Ereshkigal · 23/06/2018 21:10

For some it represents the ultimate male dominance display.

Absolutely.