any thoughts? Is left support for modern trans ideology allied to marxist theory?

[Norther]

Firstly, I would define my politics as socialist, so let me get that out of the way.

This is just a thought I am throwing out there. I wonder if the surprisingly vociferous support that the modern left (I.e. those who have no connection to or understanding of life of working classes) have for the modern trans movement (as opposed to that group of individuals who have quietly transitioned in the past and for whom I have sympathy) and its eagerness to transition very young children is connected to marxist theory and its disdain for the family unit.

Genuine question. Sorry if poorly expressed - am not an academic. Happy to be corrected so no angry responses thanks. X

Hrmm. What about Marx's analysis of reproductive labour?

What about dialectical materialism?

I know a lot of Marxist/materialist feminists who have a dictionary-based understanding of who is a man, who is a woman. But obviously they're women. Unsure what men would make of it but I personally trace it to Foucault who was a bit unhealthily obsessed with Sade.

Should have put a disclaimer - I am not a Marxist and only understand what women have been patient enough to explain to me.
But for eg Germaine Greer also challenged the idea of raising children in families and she's not supportive of personality-based gender theories.

Nope. Marxists (real ones anyway) are good at class analysis and capable of analyzing in great detail who belongs to Class Woman and why.

Thanks for those responses. May I ask then why there seems, in my eyes, to be such an overlap bet ween especially male self-described marxists and trans ideology supporters? Or is the overlap simply the 'male' part. It's just annoying that the support for women is coming from the right at the moment which is so frustrating to me and has left me politically homeless.

Ask them questions about Marxism, basic stuff, and watch their responses. In most cases they "identify" as Marxists without ever having picked up a copy of Das Kapital in their lives.

'male self-described' - there's your issue - I did have an inkling that might be it!

I've been thinking of starting my 1st thread (and let me know if I should, i.e. if this is derailing) to ask why Jeremy Corbyn doesn't seem to have taken 2nd wave feminism on board?

He was around during the 2nd wave, so why is he now listening to all the young lib fems and brocialists telling him a woman is whoever feels like one? How has he devoted his whole life to left politics and emerged with no grounding in feminism?

I wonder if you guys have any thoughts on that, which is kind of related to the op's topic.

No. Gender ideology erases the sex class of females. Class analysis is a massive TERF.

Biggest one is still Mother Nature, though.

OunceofFlounce Start threads! I am resolved to give up lurking which is why I have finally started posting. I used to be on twitter and was avidly gender critical online at a time when the mainstream feminist usual suspects were urging moderation of language (about 5 years ago - some of you who have been GC for a long time will know exactly who I mean - it really used to be Julie Bindel alone who stuck her head above the parapet) before they got called the T word anyway - appeasement DOES NOT WORK - and my laptop got wrecked by activists hijacking it and assaulting it with viruses. I backed off but now realise we need to stay engaged and not run and hide when things get tough. Just starting to take activism offline as well. My childs school policy needs addressing and bringing in line with EA for example. I am scared and exhausted but resolved. If we don't, who will. Thank you to those who led the way. I have donated to all related causes as well with the little I have even if I don't always agree with them on all issues. We are allowed to be diverse in thought. They can come for me again. I am stronger now and there are more voices on our side.

no way is it Marxism- which doesn't have a critical view of the family in the way you describe. It is Foucault, Deleuze., poststructuralist stuff - denial of nature and all that.

If we don't, who will.

Precisely. There's nobody who's going to come along and do it better, there's just us. The good news is that there's LOTS of us.

name some names of these self-described marxists. I will guarantee they have never been involved in any working class activism.

This all comes from post modernism and queer theory, I reckon. That’s fine in art, but a bit useless in real life, especially in making laws.

It’s not Marxist at all.

I’m a working class person who fluked their way into Goldsmiths a decade and a half ago. They still taught women’s studies, back then. Not sure what’s happened since but it now seems to be an epicentre for TRA in the UK (and I notice the outspoken women lecturers of my time now all work elsewhere).

Thanks for the comments. Maybe I can phrase it another way. Is the speed with which the ideology has been taken up been in order to use it as an excuse to attack the influence that women have on children and they are using a superficial analysis of, for example, marxism to back this up? Is it just old fashioned misogyny? Badly phrased again I know - hormonal migraine!

Where's that statement from the community workers in, I think, London, who were actual grassroots activists informed by socialism? That'd be interesting to look at in light of your questions.

I do remember those days on twitter - unfollowed a lot of blogs for bloggers saying 'as a cis woman' and they're now firmly GC.

I think the origin of a lot of this is definitely a hatred and mistrust of women, and perhaps linked in with their role as mothers. I would call that misogyny.
You can definitely use Marxism to be a misogynist if you are so minded.

name some names of these self-described marxists. I will guarantee they have never been involved in any working class activism.

Trans marxists are REAL marxists!

Agree with PP that you should ask the "male self-described marxists" you've come across, in what way they see themselves as Marxists.

The only place I've seen people associating "Marxism" and trans stuff is among certain sections of the right, who have a phrase "Cultural Marxism" as code for "stuff we don't like".

Most of the examples I've seen haven't been as egregious as those described in this article, but they certainly chime with it.

'Cultural Marxism': a uniting theory for rightwingers who love to play the victim
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/19/cultural-marxism-a-uniting-theory-for-rightwingers-who-love-to-play-the-victim

Thank you Norther! I'm kind of a wimp but hopefully I can take some inspiration from your story and bravery. I know it's important we all speak up, especially now that there's this big clamp down on language and purge of regular posters.

Also, I really do sympathise with the hormonal migraine! I spent years thinking it was this food or that, but recently realised I actually just need to eat loads more before and during my period. Don't know if that'll be any use but I'll keep my fingers crossed you get some relief.

BTW, talking of asking people what their labels mean, I'm encouraging people to clarify what they intend by "gender critical".

OP, could you say what you mean by "gender critical".

Eg do you think gender is innate and biologically determined, like sex, and can't be changed.

Or do you mean that gender is not innate but is a system of social expectations and behaviours, imposed on people by social pressure (and often law)?

It's just it wasn't clear in your posts, and there seem to be two usages out there.

You might like this blog, OP:

freerlives.wordpress.com/

I think PC is both postmodern and, in a sense, neoliberal. Both Blair and Cameron presented as progressive and compassionate and ticked all the right politically correct boxes while at the same time enabling brutal systems of economic exploitation and inequality.

PC is perhaps a by-product of the corruption of society by corporate/capitalist looters. Liberals and modern lefties know its very very wrong but it seems like there's nothing they can do about it, therefore they recapture the moral high ground and redirect that helplessness and frustration into pointless nitpicking about tolerance and cultural sensitivity, while in the background the exploitation and suffering carries on regardless. Emperor's New Clothes.

PerkingFaintly

I believe (sorry, know) sex can't be changed (as technology currently stands) and gender is bs. Therefore I criticise the very notion of gender itself and consider it a set of rules designed to keep women (sometimes men and boys) in their place. That's my stance on that.

OunceofFlounce

Thanks. It is finally starting to clear. Don't get it every month, thankfully.

SuperLoudPoppingAction

I remember the statement actually. Wasn't that goldsmiths students again? Could be wrong.