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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Kylie Jenner Father's Day Post

56 replies

Moonkissedlegs · 18/06/2018 13:50

So Kylie Jenner has posted a 'Father's Day' post to her 109 million Instagram followers: the caption says 'we are so lucky to have you' and its 7 or 8 pictures of her as a child with her and her sister with their parents, with Caitlyn obviously pre transition.

I just thought, good on her. She obviously does not see her father as a 'woman' in any way, he is her dad. But I was also just thinking about it in this climate of having to be so careful about deadnaming and misgendering. I don't know, like would people give a young woman shit for misgendering her own dad? Do people really believe that Caitlyn Jenner is a woman? Am I even allowed to say that?

There were a few comments about 'transphobia' underneath but a lot of them seemed to be kind of sarcastic, which suggests that no one really actually buys it. And if CJ isn't a woman, then how are other transwomen 'actually' women?

As an aside, I also found it quite sad - all these pictures were such happy ones of her as a kid with her happily married parents. It does seem like she had quite a happy childhood before all the Kardashian stuff kicked off. It seems like she was longing for that time again or something posting these pics, there were no current or recent ones on the post.

Apologies for lowering the tone in Feminism Chat with a KJ post!

OP posts:
loveyouradvice · 19/06/2018 13:05

moonkissed I so agree with your wonderful long rambling post upthread... it expresses everything I feel and the journey I too have taken...and of course is why the TRAs are doing the transsexuals so much harm.... Though I still haven't worked out how they get away with calling them Tru-scum and where that came from

Whattheactualfuckmate · 19/06/2018 13:18

This post would actually be great posted in chat just so other MN users can see and discuss rather than them being hidden in FC

It’s time we all woke up

MrsJayy · 19/06/2018 13:27

It isn't hidden it popped up in active conversations do you think Feminism chat is ina dusty corner of munsnet ?

MrsJayy · 19/06/2018 13:29

There is more than enough transexual theads kicking about that members could jump in and talk about if they wanted .

Listener73 · 19/06/2018 22:45

Thanks for all the responses and questions. I'm not sure I can get to all the messages but will hopefully cover the main points.

Fermats the tone of your post seemed to be arguing against my view point but then you said:

"When a group of people tell you that they find a blanket term you are applying to them offensive (even taking the time to explain why they find it offensive) if you want to engage in polite discussion with them you should stop using it."

I agree 100% - this is exactly what I've been saying so it seems we're on the same page. I have no intent of being deliberately offensive. I have no intent of lecturing people and I don't think I have lectured at any point.

Regarding numerous other comments (apologies this won't cover them all) for me "cis" doesn't mean/imply that stereotypes are reinforced. It simply means that a persons sex and gender are aligned. For some people their sex and gender may differ and in these instances they aren't cis.

If sex is female and gender is also female that doesn't mean there is an expected stereotype you must conform to because the prefix "cis" is applied. If we look at Grayson Perry who (I think) would say his sex is male and his gender is male. He would therefore be "cis" by the definition as I understand it. However he often dresses in women's clothing and presents as female - him being cis doesn't mean a stereotype has to be obeyed.

Growing up I certainly didn't conform to gender stereotypes and was often bullied for it. This doesn't cause any conflict for me or mean I'm anything other than cis now. Obviously every person has their own journey with this and will come to different outcomes and I hear and respect them. My experience isn't "right" it's just my experience and nothing more.

I hope the above goes some way to explaining my thoughts on it. I don't think I have much more to add and of course you are free to disagree and I'm sure you will!

Thanks all for your input and differing views.

soapboxqueen · 20/06/2018 00:12

listener what do you think gender is then? If it isn't biology or stereotypes, what is it? What are people identifying with?

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