The “100,000 people alive” DUP claim - evidence?

[Cwenthryth]

Catching up with any questions/any answers, and the DUP claim that there are 100,000 people alive in Northern Ireland who have been ‘saved’ due to abortion being illegal there.

I understand that this figure comes from the campaign group Both Lives Matter.

Does anyone know how they came to this conclusion, has there been any independent verification of the claim or debunking of the calculation?

I am loath to talk about it in truth, but I am raising a child thanks to having been lied to about birth control, and rightly or wrongly it’s incredibly hard to hear I’m the devil of piece as I would never have consented to sex and/or would have used a condom if I had not been lied to.

It’s not OK to lie about birth control. Let’s get that straight.

At the same time, women the world over would Not rely on a man’s word that they had had say a vasectomy if they didn’t want children.

Women and men have I supposed different ‘control points’ when it comes to reproduction. For men, the point of control you have is sex itself - once that sperm has left the building so to speak, you have no control over where it goes. The problem is that men don’t want to give up sex, or have sex ‘reduced’ by using condoms. But that’s the only point of control they have, if they don’t want a child.

For women, the point of control should be any point from the ability to say no to sex up to the abortion limit.

It’s a sad fact that a colossal number of women are unable to say no to sex within relationships (you only have to go and read the relationships boards to see heartbreaking examples of this).
So then they have contraception - which unlike Male use of condoms carries risks - embolisms, cancer, hormonal contraception has a multitude of side effects.
And then the last line as it were is abortion. Nobody wants an abortion but the ability to have one is vital to women’s health and freedom.

So it’s not really an equivalent thing. I have been severely ill through two pregnancies and in both I could probably have died a hundred years ago. I would certainly have died during the birth of my first even a few years ago because it was only the upgrades in scanning tech that picked up the vascular issues that required a c section. Pregnancy and birth is risky - it’s the physically most risky thing most women will ever do.

So on this one, the circle doesn’t need squaring. Men and women’s needs here are not equivalent, and women’s take precedence.

Compulsory insurance for all men to insure against the situation where they might willingly have sex without considering the consequences. Ok then. It'd be interesting to see how you can sell that to your fellow man.

@TransexclusionaryMRA: Should men have the right to say “I’m not ready at this point in my life for fatherhood” and have the right to walk away?

You have the right to use your body to prevent a baby from being born, but you don't have the right to defund your born child. The woman has the right to use her body to prevent a baby from being born, but she doesn't have the right to defund her born child. Your rights on this are equal to hers already. Biology means that she has more options, but it's her body involved in gestation and her risks are higher.

If you want more options for male birth control, fund research into and lobby for availability of Vasalgel and the "clean sheets pill" and get your fellow MRAs to do likewise. I, a woman, have already chipped in because I want men to have more options to veto a pregnancy and, in long-term relationships by mutual agreement, be able to relieve the woman of the contraceptive burden.

I would never have consented to sex and/or would have used a condom

I am incapable of sympathy for a man who is happy for a woman to shoulder the entire burden of birth control by not wearing a condom and then finds himself becoming a father. The Pill quadruples a woman's risk of a stroke and all female birth control options either have side effects or are "scream so loud that you can be heard in the waiting room" levels of painful to fit. It's beyond selfish to expect a woman to undergo those risks and side effects and then not even put a condom on.

I have no time for the DUP or anything they stand for. However they are getting voted into power in each election. So I am more frustrated with my fellow NI citizens who continue to vote these racist dinosaurs into power and let them dictate to the population of NI what choices they can have.
I blame the people more than the DUP. The DUP always make their views known. People are voting for these views
I am not pro abortion, I am pro choice. I believe in God but I also believe God gave each human the ability of free choice (Adam and eve). So who do they think they are over riding Gods free choice ability. I don't see how they can use this argument. Until you walk in someone else's shoes you can not judge or cannot tell them what they need to do.
Rant over

I wasn't clear on the first quoted question: you don't have the right to walk away, which is what I meant with "defund your born child".

voldermorticia You;re right, I got them mixed up.
but as the anti abortion groups in NI think women should be forced to carry to term even in cases of rape and incest, I think the meaning of my comment still stands.

TransExclusionaryMRA This thread isn't about your personal situation and your comments are tone deaf.

MRA's ask ;'what rights do men have that women don't have' and all we hear is 'we have no idea how you people live.'
Women in Catholic countries are prevented from accessing contraception. Women in situations of DV are also prevented from accessing contraception.
So your comments about women not taking responsibility for contraception, on a thread about abortion rights, are out of order and look like an attempt to derail the thread by someone who has an axe to grind and no real concept of pregnancy issues.

or are "scream so loud that you can be heard in the waiting room" levels of painful to fit.

Speaking here of coils. The Mirena is huge and the cervical dilation to fit it is substantial. The NHS didn't offer local anaethesia for this when I had mine fitted. When I went to see the Mirena's inventor for a Fibroplant, he was horrified that I had been given one of his devices without anaethesia.

So, yeah men, carry on bitching about condoms being uncomfortable. We see you.

Agree with previous comments to MRA here. You can bitch and moan about it when you take all the responsibility of flooding your body with potentially dangerous hormones that can give you cancer, blood clots and severe depression. But no, that’s all up to women, just so that you don’t have to endure the hassle of putting on a condom. It’s a terrible shame for you that you have to pay out money and feel like a ‘mug’. Perhaps you now have some empathy for the millions of women whose careers have stalled and nosedived after having kids due to having to take responsibility for nearly all childcare, leading to huge financial loss over a lifetime.

An excellent point about people still voting for the DUP, they don’t exist in a vacuum. I don’t begin to understand NI politics but I imagine they have a loyal fan base regardless of actual policy.
Which is why, as an outsider, it was so cheering to the voters in the ROI, despite longstanding beliefs they voted for change.
I can’t express what I feel about the government being in power with the support of the DUP. Surely the price isn’t worth it.

My DH grew up in East Belfast and when I met him he just assumed I voted for Sinn Fein as I'm Catholic. I said nope...depends entirely on policies. He was amazed and said that where he grew up, everyone voted for the DUP, no matter what. Luckily he has courage and would never vote for that shower of prats! But it just shows you how entrenched politics is among some people in NI.

@LastGirlOnTheLeft do you want to have a laugh? Tell you dh that there are several hard-line Republicans who did time in the kesh from South derry/east Tyrone that are now voting the dup on this very issue.

The place has went mad

NI politics is complex and I don’t have a great understanding of it - but are there any unionist pro-choice parties? I understand Sinn Fein has just voted to change their policies on abortion, which is great, but for many people they would never ever be an option to vote for because they are republican (right?)

@SerendipityFelix prochoice no. Uup have said they'd be in favor of allowing abortion only when the babu or mothers lives are in grave danger.

Funnily enough it's the 'catholic' parties which are in favour of abortion, sinn fein and sdlp

Sinn fein were a republican party but from the early 90s there had been a deliberate agenda to leave those politics in the past and go more mainstream. So from the 90s on theyve been abandoning /are being abandoned by their traditional electorate.

I am loath to talk about it in truth, but I am raising a child thanks to having been lied to about birth control, and rightly or wrongly it’s incredibly hard to hear I’m the devil of piece as I would never have consented to sex and/or would have used a condom if I had not been lied to

Have you never heard of "doubling up"?

In any case I thought the advice for everyone post- Aids was use a condom regardless of other contraceptive methods unless and until one is in a committed relationship.

Amalfi it is mad!! I just hope people who would previously have voted for the parties that are now anti-abortion find it in them to be 'disloyal'. Let's see change!!!

It's bigotry like this that makes me grateful I didn't grow up in Northern Ireland.

Jesus!