The “100,000 people alive” DUP claim - evidence?

[Cwenthryth]

Catching up with any questions/any answers, and the DUP claim that there are 100,000 people alive in Northern Ireland who have been ‘saved’ due to abortion being illegal there.

I understand that this figure comes from the campaign group Both Lives Matter.

Does anyone know how they came to this conclusion, has there been any independent verification of the claim or debunking of the calculation?

freakonomics.com/2005/05/15/abortion-and-crime-who-should-you-believe/

Freakonomics- that was it. Thanks. It was interesting.

I only listen to anti abortion people if they have had sex only for procreation, never for fun or whatever other reasons we do it. Still wouldn't pay them much attention, mind you.

I remember that, Quentin. Will go refresh my memory on your link now :-)

I'm more interested in: how many women died? How many of those kids had to be put into care? How many were in poverty because of this? The mental and physical health of these women? Do they not matter!?

At least one of their 100,000 women was a 14 year old girl raped by a friends father. They forced a child rape victim to carry a baby full term. Thats nothing to be proud of, its the sort of conditions you expect in countries with very questionable ethics..

I'm more interested in: how many women died? How many of those kids had to be put into care? How many were in poverty because of this? The mental and physical health of these women? Do they not matter!?

Of course they don’t. Only the unborn matter. And once they’re born they can starve.

Don’t some of these same arguments track in defense of deadbeat dads? However when it’s men who want to absolve themselves of responsibility suddenly it’s entirely fair to point the gun in the room at men and I’ve even seen arguments for jail time. Should men have the right to say “I’m not ready at this point in my life for fatherhood” and have the right to walk away?

Men who are not ready for fatherhood can take responsibility for contraception, and make it clear upfront before they have sex.

True, although not all contraception is 100%. Surely the argument for contraception applies equally to women also?

Well, men don't give birth for one thing. The two aren't equivalent.

But talking to you is futile, you're here as a self declared men's rights activist to troll these boards.

It's totally different. The man is not putting his life at risk to have a baby in the same way the woman is.
If a man decides he doesn't want the pregnancy, it affects he physical state of the woman as it still leaves her either pregnant or having a abortion.
The woman's choice has no physical impact on the man (although it may have an emotional one)

@voldermorticia

Upstart that’s an Irish case, not Northern Ireland. Iirc.

It was quite a while ago and my memory isn't great, but I think the girl did travel to have an abortion in England, and DNA was from the foetus was saved so the man could be prosecuted. Was it the X case?

They are happy to confirm 100000 forced pregnancies & 100000 forced births?

My intention isn’t to troll, it’s a complicated subject and one I do struggle with mainly due to personal circumstances. In fact the whole reason I’ve gone down the MRA rabbit hole is pretty much thanks to this one issue. Maybe without context it’s impossible to engage without coming across as goady (and perhaps it’s goady even then?).

I am loath to talk about it in truth, but I am raising a child thanks to having been lied to about birth control, and rightly or wrongly it’s incredibly hard to hear I’m the devil of piece as I would never have consented to sex and/or would have used a condom if I had not been lied to.

I accept that women carry the physical risks of pregnancy, and it also feels to me an evil to either force a woman into parenthood or indeed to force a termination of an otherwise wanted child. Trouble is it also feels like an evil to force a man into a similar position. I don’t really expect a jot of sympathy and/or compassion, but I’m sure there is a way to square the circle re: men and women’s conflicting interests without coercing either.

would never have consented to sex and/or would have used a condom if I had not been lied to. hahaha you would have used a condom if you wanted to be more sure a baby wouldn’t be the result. Same as everyone women has to take responsibility for her fertility when when condoms are used. Including having an abortion when that fails.
Also no one is forcing you to raise a child. I have no idea of your circumstances but plenty men walk away from their children.

TransExclusionaryMRA
I think lying about birth control is awful & i dont want to comment on your personal situation at all but birth control can & does fail. Ultimately pregnancy is always a risk of having sex. Maybe men should take responsibility for contraception - if both partners use contraception the chances of pregnancy are tiny.
Again NOT a comment on your personal situation

It's not equivalent. Men don't have to carry a foetus for 9 months and then give birth to it. They don't have to potentially feel sick, or be sick for weeks on end. To have their body become unrecognisable to them. To have to either push a watermelon out of their arse or have their abdomen cut wide open, sometimes in emergency circumstances. To risk death from all sorts of complications, including pre eclampsia or sepsis. To sustain life changing injuries that they may never fully recover from. To potentially have emotional problems from the hormones coursing round their body. And only then still have to 'be responsible' for the child.

If you are going to potentially be going through any of the above, you have to have consented to sign up for it willingly. No one would ever force someone to go through any of the above in any other circumstance against their will.

It's not the same as the man's position. At all.

"I’m sure there is a way to square the circle re: men and women’s conflicting interests without coercing either."

Seriously, how?

If you have sex and you don't take precautions yourself to guarantee you won't create a pregnancy then you have to accept the small chance you might end up with a child. Birth control pills can fail even if taken correctly btw.

I'm surprised that you don't consider the approach of lots of other men, and arrange your life to avoid paying maintenance, and don't seek any contact. Job done in terms of avoiding parental responsibility.

Found the X-case...
www.thejournal.ie/twenty-years-on-a-timeline-of-the-x-case-347359-Feb2012/

So 200,000 parents had to go ahead with a pregnancy and 18 years plus of child-rearing, against their will, because of somebody else's religious views. Fucking outrageous.

Well I’m one of those mugs who not only has 50/50 shared care I still pay (non court mandated) child support. As hurt as my feelings were (and I can confirm emotional turmoil to the point of suicidal ideation), my child is the most innocent in this equation.

How would I square the circle? Probably some sort of insurance, much like we all need insurance to drive tonnes of hurtling metal on the nations roads if we all had insurance so in the event of an unplanned pregnancy resources would be made available, the woman could make the decision free from financial worries, men could walk were they so inclined. Fewer children living in poverty etc. Probably less of a drain on the public purse too. Idea needs work I accept that, but I think there is the germ of a good idea in there somewhere.

You’re one of those mugs who accepted responsibility for their actions. Congratulations for doing what women have been doing for thousands of years, shall we throw you a parade. But you could walk away from all responsibilities , stop paying and stop contact. A pregnant woman can’t do the same unless she has an abortion.