Why I can no longer use the term transwoman...

[loveyouradvice]

... this actually makes me sad.

It is a term I have used for ages, comfortable with the compromise it encapsulated .... seeing it as a word much like seahorse - not horses, but sharing some characteristics ... and wanting to be generous to those who had had a tough time being able to express themselves and be accepted by society

But now - thanks to this board and especially to the MRAs - I can no longer use it.

I realise that it is a strategic move on their part - so that eventually there will be two groups of people:

transwomen and women ... i.e. the class of women
men and transmen ... i.e. the class of men... though I'm not sure the transmen get much of a look in

And yes, every time I now read the term trans woman with that all important gap signifying no greater difference than "tall woman" or "Asian woman" .... it makes me truly frightened for our future and for our daughters

I will follow mumsnet guidance on the new language we must all use... this forum is too important in enabling the world to see what is happening: I love the fact that the media and politicians take a peak here to see what women are saying.... so yes, I will play the strange new game of verbal linguistics.... while recognising that my own position is shifting (and continues to do so)

Gaslighting doesn't mean 'disagrees with me' just fyi smg.

But yes you're right, the law only dictates how people must be treated in certain respects (basically just re inclusion in the case of men who say they're women) not how they must be understood, or treated outside of those. I do not have to adopt the ideology or religion of protected groups for eg, and nor do I only have to refer to ideologies/religions/adherents the way adherents want me to, or indeed the way the law refers to them. And the law is fucked for women, the law is no moral standard, the law is part of a patriarchal society.

Absolutely none of this is any challenge at all to the fact that women can understand and refer to men who say they are women however we want, and we never have to treat them as we would other women either actually, we only have to allow their inclusion in certain instances, which is quite obviously not the same.

Yup I'm out for a walk, sun's out :D

Gaslighting doesn't mean 'disagrees with me' just fyi smg.

We know SMG has a bit of a suspect dictionary.

The EA says the protected category of gender reassignment refers to transsexuals. Not men nor women nor "transwomen" or "transmen". Transsexuals.

I come here in the same way that I frequent the Daily Mail comments, the places where incels dwell on reddit, and places where trump supporters frequent. Not to goad, but to engage, and to hopefully allow any lurkers to see that there's other points of views on display in echo chambers.

not at all goady

Have a nice virtue signal.

Does your constant goading belong here, SmG?
I guess the question for MN is more about whether or not this is the right place for it.

Champ? Are you fucking kidding me? That has cabbage in it [horrified]

I'm not sure why you would want to equate transgenderism with lies

Nearly fell off my chair laughing at this one.

@Supermatchgame Someone once tried to legislate the value of pi but the human law could not change the laws of mathematics. A woman adopting a child becomes the mother by legal fiction, but the law cannot force the child's nor mother's chromosomes to change in order to create biological kinship. The GRA can create a legal fiction of sex change but cannot alter biology.

Bringing up bank robbery is not at all relevant.

I hope you’re enjoying your potatoes 🥔 Maryz. You did say it was a potato, didn’t you?

They were yummy PERF. Potatoes always cheer me up

yy Elen, I noticed that one too.

I haven't been ok with the word transwoman for a while now. I'm not prepared to concede that they are any type of woman. They are men. That's it. I'm not going to be nice. My answer is NO

Same here. I've NEVER been ok with it tho.

They were yummy PERF. Potatoes always cheer me up

Food of the gods, but you spelled potatoes wrong. The correct spelling is SPUD 🥔 😁

@SupermatchGame

'Mother' used to mean biological female parent until the definition was changed by the Adoption Act. You don't have to be a biological mother to legally be a mother.

FFS is it 'offensive dickheads commenting about adoption' day on MN today? It has always been entirely normal to describe the people who care for you and bring you up as your parents. Adoption occured before the adoption act and adoptive parents are not lesser parents.

It is really offensive to keep using adoption to make your point. Adoptive parents are real parents and you are disgusting to keep suggesting otherwise.

Parenting is not something you 'feel'. You do it. You don't identify with it. You are parents if you parent children!!!

A woman adopting a child becomes the mother by legal fiction

Nope. A woman or man adopting becomes a parent because they are the one cleaning up vomit and wiping away tears. Same as any other parent.

People who fuck off and don't parent are not parents, no matter how many genes they share. People who lose their kids because they abused them are not parents.

This situation is not analogous with the GRA, please stop referring to is as such.

Food of the gods, but you spelled potatoes wrong. The correct spelling is SPUD 🥔 😁
That was my grandma McAllister's nick name when she was young. Spud. It always makes me think of her.

I was always unsure of the reason for the addition of "trans" as a prefix.

If a person identifies as a woman, my instinct is to call them a "woman".

Me: A woman adopting a child becomes the mother by legal fiction, but the law cannot force the child's nor mother's chromosomes to change in order to create biological kinship.

@donquixotedelamancha Nope. A woman or man adopting becomes a parent because they are the one cleaning up vomit and wiping away tears. Same as any other parent.

Foster parents perform those care activities but they are not legally parents, they are guardians, and don't have the same rights and responsibilities with respect to the child. Adoption takes the rights and responsibilities that the biological parents had over the child and transfers them to the adoptive parents, even though the adoptive parents are not biological kin to the child, so any inheritable diseases that the adoptive parents have will not affect the child. It's this ability of the law to transfer rights but not affect biology that is the analogy to transwomen. I'm talking about the law and biology, not the practicalities of care nor about whether adoptive parents are valid or suitable parents. (That the legal system allows for adoption would indicate that adoptive parents are valid and suitable parents, otherwise adoption wouldn't be allowed. The people I know who have adopted, I have the utmost respect for because they are giving children, who have frequently had a bad start, a second chance at a good home. There is absolutely nothing second-class about adoptive parents.)

Just jumping in for a 're-rail' here (LOL).
I am positive I have seen a MNHQ mod (possibly Justine or Kate) state in one particular place that 'transwoman' was not acceptable, and the space from hell should henceforth be added.

I have had a search on the two mod threads in site stuff, cannot find it. But I remember reading it, and was suitably horrified. Will have another go at searching.

I did chuckle at PERF's transwo space man

If forced to use the space, I will use 'transwoman'. And no doubt lose a 'life' in the process.

The EA says the protected category of gender reassignment refers to transsexuals. Not men nor women nor "transwomen" or "transmen". Transsexuals.

thebewilderness Im confused by this... I assumed it was everyone with a GRC, which I recognise isn't many - around 4,000 I think (as predicted by those making the law) - and not all of those are transsexuals.... ?

Having said that, there was one comment on the Part II thread that said it was ok. (sorry, cannot figure out how to get a hyperlink to the comment, only using the 'report' URL)
www.mumsnet.com/ReportTalkPost?topicid=1374&threadid=3277316&msgid=78647084

GardenGeek Yeah, I feel ok about using "transmasc" and "transfeminine". I also first heard the terms from trans people themselves, notably a few trans people who are prominent activists on YouTube- Chase Ross, Ty Turner, Aaron Ansuini. Chase has explained a few times using "transmasc" for trans who ID on the "masc" scale anything from "trans man", "trans guy" to "Boi" to [bio female] masculine-identifying non-binaries and genderqu**r.

*All three also identify as "trans man", "trans guy", "FTM" (and, with a bit of YouTube humour, "#FemaleToDemonetised").

loveyouradvice
It is a carelessly crafted law.
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/7