Why I can no longer use the term transwoman...

[loveyouradvice]

... this actually makes me sad.

It is a term I have used for ages, comfortable with the compromise it encapsulated .... seeing it as a word much like seahorse - not horses, but sharing some characteristics ... and wanting to be generous to those who had had a tough time being able to express themselves and be accepted by society

But now - thanks to this board and especially to the MRAs - I can no longer use it.

I realise that it is a strategic move on their part - so that eventually there will be two groups of people:

transwomen and women ... i.e. the class of women
men and transmen ... i.e. the class of men... though I'm not sure the transmen get much of a look in

And yes, every time I now read the term trans woman with that all important gap signifying no greater difference than "tall woman" or "Asian woman" .... it makes me truly frightened for our future and for our daughters

I will follow mumsnet guidance on the new language we must all use... this forum is too important in enabling the world to see what is happening: I love the fact that the media and politicians take a peak here to see what women are saying.... so yes, I will play the strange new game of verbal linguistics.... while recognising that my own position is shifting (and continues to do so)

Sorry NaturalBornWoman.

Do you suppose it's worth using one of my three lives telling Puresummer what I think of him/her/them/whatever? Or should I presume they'll be gone tomorrow and reserve them for a better time?

I literally just wrote a whole post and then thought nah, not worth it.

Don't even engage in it. It's gaslighting.

A mother is not just a woman who gives birth, but a woman who raises a child. There is nothing false about this so there is no legal fiction to uphold. Saying men can be women is absolutely a legal fiction, because men cannot change sex. And yes, it's incredibly nasty that you would try to compare these. As well as totally baseless.

Leyat people can 'view' others as they like. But how they refer to them and behave towards them is legislated for. It isn't a matter of personal belief.

disgraceful and downright nasty that two of you
justify our subjugated status
nasty comparison

The word gaslighting is thrown around a lot in here. Textbook case.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_fiction#Adoption

As an aside, if we are talking about appropriation, I was considering putting on a bit of false tan and declaring myself to be black. Would that be a legal or illegal fiction?

More or less ok than putting on a pair of jeans and declaring myself to be a man? Especially since it's Saturday.

If we're going to talk about legal fictions, here's one for you:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_nullius

It has been used to show that aboriginal inhabitants of a land didn't actually have legal ownership of it and it was only when a colonial power arrived that legal ownership could come into being. (Hang on, that does sound familiar.)

You've got law. And you've got reality. It's best not to confuse them.

Yup I agree Kettle, at the end of the day we have to remember they believe we all have lady brains, so yeah, not worth the effort. Just so nasty though....

I'm tending to just use the word 'trans' rather than adding anything after it at the mo...

You are being targeted and goaded. They are allowed to do this: we will be deleted for responding.

They know it.

Goady. But not worth losing one of your lives over!

I think it's time.

Maryz I wasn't looking at you.

I'd say don't waste your breath. Why don't we just engage the virtual hide poster button, they aren't worth getting upset about.

Do you suppose it's worth using one of my three lives telling Puresummer what I think of him/her/them/whatever? Or should I presume they'll be gone tomorrow and reserve them for a better time?

That poster pops up on many trans threads about women's rights to tell gender critical women how horrid we are but this is the most I've ever seen them post. I'm sure they'll be gone soon now they've had their little goad. Don't waste the life.

You are being targeted and goaded. They are allowed to do this: we will be deleted for responding.

Agree.

Yippee, I've spotted it.

DARVO

Indeed.

That's interesting. Maybe a lurker who reports but has started to feel the need to intervene. I smell victory.

Yes.

Wow again, every argument against your position is "goading". Every time a poster agrees with another who disagrees with you, it's a conspiracy.

You accuse people who support transpeople of drinking the kool aid and being "cultlike" - you seriously need to look into a mirror. There's a huge undercurrent of irony that runs through this place.

I come here in the same way that I frequent the Daily Mail comments, the places where incels dwell on reddit, and places where trump supporters frequent. Not to goad, but to engage, and to hopefully allow any lurkers to see that there's other points of views on display in echo chambers.

I guess I'm a little freer today than usually. I don't have children - due to circumstances, my only hope is to adopt. Hence why, in actuality, I have nothing but respect and admiration for those that DO adopt. And why I don't post the "legal fiction" thing as a way of attacking anyone who has adopted - the only way it COULD be perceived as an attack is if you were so committed to the idea of attacking transpeople that any attempt to disagree with a route that you'd take (such as claiming that being a "legal fiction" makes them illegitimate) would be seen as a personal attack.

There’s loads of legal fictions.

The law is frequently an ass.

"Smell victory". Genuinely, wow. I have indeed reported things twice on this forum - once for someone comparing all transpeople to incel perverts, and another time for someone posting an incredibly offensive meme as their opening post. Those are the only times I'm afraid.

Don't see me deciding to post as somehow cages being rattled - I'm affiliated with no one and my contacts are basically just a few friends and colleagues. I'm not politically active - my last role was as an NUT LGB delegate back in 2004 when I actually voted AGAINST the T being added do the NUS LGB. However, in the decade since, I'm met a few really lovely transpeople and actually changed my views.

I'm off to put the potatoes on.

Time for dinner for my legally fictional children.

Two years later and I'm still fucking furious and angry about Brexit. It's now getting to the point where I'm triggered about the decision.

It's not trivial either. It's a whole change of life as I know it as friends and family know it. I'm not alone.

And I am and still remain fucking furious.

Have a lovely evening Mary

Enjoy the potatoes Maryz.

Is it champ you're making?