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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

Would I be wrong to leave the b**stard?

51 replies

ScienceIsTruth · 15/06/2018 09:06

George Washington once said: " If freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter".

With these new guidelines in place, Mumsnet is starting to feel like an emotional abuser. Dictating what I can and cannot say, forcing me to lie and go against my morals and beliefs, and by using words in a dishonest manner in order to appease a group that can NEVER be appeased, and whose demands will only escalate.

I have Aspergers, and I've spent most of my life being bullied, so the truth is important to me, and it is distressing to me to be told that I must lie, or else face deletion. I have a degree in biochemistry and physiology, and I see science as searching for the truth. Biology is immutable and real, and I can't understand why I'm being expected to lie and pretend that it doesn't exist.

I thought that the EA 2010 protected SEX, and our right to hold beliefs, so why are MN putting one groups set of beliefs above mine? Why are they deemed more important? Why is the fact that making me lie about my deeply held beliefs, and causing me distress is ok, when MN are then saying we mustn't upset men, or women, who find reality offensive?

MN is meant to be a place for WOMEN run by WOMEN, so why are they allowing MEN, and mentally disturbed ones at that, to dictate to them? MN is a private business (as far as I'm aware) and as such is allowed to set it's own rules, so why are they kowtowing to outside influences? It's almost like they've been conditioned to 'be nice'.

Lying makes me uncomfortable and stresses me out, and that's without the deliberate misuse of our language where we use he/him to refer to males. My life is confusing enough without having to police my own thoughts.

I feel like I've stepped into the pages of 1984, where Newspeak and Doublespeak reign, and even our thoughts are seen as crimes. It is utter madness, and feels like emotional abuse, to be told we must lie and change our language (and the meaning of words) so as not offend a small minority of people. Especially when those people have the choice to simply NOT come onto this site.

You'd think it would tell MN something that these people are hunting down things to be upset about. To me, it screams that this is about power and control; just like all abusers.

The fact that MN are going along with it, and demanding that women bow down to the will of these men, makes them just as bad (if not worse) than the TRAs that set this in motion.

To my mind, MN are themselves behaving as an emotional abuser does, so should we LTB?

As Salman Rushdie once said: " The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible".

Also, another favourite quote of mine from George Orwell seems rather apt: "If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they don't want to hear".

Thanks for reading this far. I know I'm not as eloquent as most posters on here are, but I hope I've made myself clear enough.

I welcome all comments, including those that disagree with me.

OP posts:

BettyDuMonde · 15/06/2018 09:15

Great post.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 15/06/2018 09:16

I find myself very trapped too. It's the not mentioning natal sex that totally fucks me over. The conflicts arise because people born male are hurting the interests of women by falsely claiming to be of our sex.

Bowlofbabelfish · 15/06/2018 09:20

I’m staying. I’m very disturbed by the implication that speech is censored on here. I dont want anyone silenced if they contribute in good faith, regardless of whether they agree with me or not.
I don’t want language to be policed. I will not lie and I will keep challenging the Bad Science type misinformation when i see it.

But I will stay. Until I’m banned. This board is about the only mainstream feminist space on the web - which of course is why it’s being so viciously targeted.

JoyTheUnicorn · 15/06/2018 09:21

Yes.
I'm autistic too and feel exactly the same.
It's uncomfortable to realise that the very methods of abuse I learnt about here on MN are the very tools used to prevent us from speaking freely about the current trans agenda. And it is very much an agenda, it's not about protecting an oppressed group (as were frequently told), it's about appropriating what it is to be a woman, colonising the spaces and rights that generations of feminists have fought for.

KittyKlaws · 15/06/2018 09:24

Well in this case the bastard is made up of lots of women who support you and this board is still allowing the debate. Time will tell how draconian it gets.

JoyTheUnicorn · 15/06/2018 09:25

To be clear, I won't be leaving MN, but I do understand why some may want to.

gendercritter · 15/06/2018 09:27

I share your concerns.

I don't have autism but I have M.E which on a bad day gives me a degree cognitive impairment. You wouldn't know it largely because if I do try to edit my posts but I think sometimes it's obvious because I make stupid typos or jumble my words a bit.

Someone was saying on a thread that it isn't hard to use neutral pronouns. Yes it bloody is if you have heavy brain fog. It takes a lot of mental energy.

I don't think MN have historically been brilliant at tackling issues around disabilities, sorry MNHQ. Our needs need to be taken into consideration too. Or are we just not good enough at throwing our weight around and threatening people?

starcrossedseahorse · 15/06/2018 09:30

I have rejoined to speak out on here. If I get banned then so be it. Men threatening women and shutting us down is as old as the hills and we must not be cowed by them and their vile behaviour.

Artemis7 · 15/06/2018 09:31

I think you are very eloquent and have made yourself extremely clear. I agree with you completely, many of us feel the exact same way as you do, it is a reasonable feeling to have when forced into doing something we shouldn’t be forced into doing. It is abusive and disgraceful, I hate that we are supposed to pretend males are females, but clearly our rights (let alone our feelings) don’t matter as much as men’s feelings.

NotTerfNorCis · 15/06/2018 09:32

Good post. It is remarkable how women are being bullied into silence while men who say genuinely transphobic things are being left alone.

lovetheway · 15/06/2018 09:33

Also autistic, and I find it very very stressful to have to go along with a LIE. Seriously, I don't think NTs understand how hard it is - it makes me physically agitated.

CaptainMarvelDanvers · 15/06/2018 09:42

It’s one of the things that I don’t get by the usually skeptical left. I know people who call themselves atheists but go along with pseudoscience bollocks.

I’m okay with people believing what they want to believe as long as they aren’t forcing me to believe it or forcing me to go along with the charade. If people want to believe they are a cat for example, fine do whatever just don’t bring me into it and make me treat and talk to you like a cat - I’ll talk to you like a human being and the rest is on you.

NotTerfNorCis · 15/06/2018 09:46

TRAs keep insisting they have science on their side, but what they're actually doing is conflating trans with intersex. A lot of liberals are only too keen to believe them without question.

Ereshkigal · 15/06/2018 09:47

Great post OP. I am staying for now but their actions in enabling the misogynistic abusive bullying of women and forcing them to lie and walk on eggshells around abusers is extremely distressing to me as a victim of abusive male coercive control.

ClosDesMouches · 15/06/2018 09:51

I'm afraid to post now because I don't understand much of what we are/aren't allowed to say now.
And what I do understand is that I'm expected to deny biology and actually lie if I want to continue posting here.

Snappity · 15/06/2018 09:53

"TRAs keep insisting they have science on their side, but what they're actually doing is conflating trans with intersex. A lot of liberals are only too keen to believe them without question."

The gender critical feminists drag intersex in when they claim what matters is being XX.

Bowlofbabelfish · 15/06/2018 09:54

TRAs keep insisting they have science on their side,

They do keep saying that. And I keep pointing out all the myriad ways they are very, very wrong. And how wrong of them it is to co opt the intersex community into this.

Bowlofbabelfish · 15/06/2018 09:57

The gender critical feminists drag intersex in when they claim what matters is being XX.

Can you provide an alternative definition of being a human female that doesn’t require being homozygous for the X chromosome?

The intersex community are not some kind of ‘gotcha’ point scoring device, and it’s unpleasant and scientifically incorrect for them to be used as an argument that sex isn’t Male, or female but is some kind of fuzzy bimodal distribution

terryleather · 15/06/2018 09:58

Great post Science

You'd think it would tell MN something that these people are hunting down things to be upset about. To me, it screams that this is about power and control; just like all abusers.

It's very telling which side wants to shut down debate isn't it, and it's also very telling as to who kowtows.

And it is very much an agenda, it's not about protecting an oppressed group (as were frequently told), it's about appropriating what it is to be a woman, colonising the spaces and rights that generations of feminists have fought for.

And Joy nails it.

I will see how things pan out with the new guidlines but I am very very close to leaving as I no longer believe that MN is truly on the side of free speech. I think they made it pretty clear in their statement who they'll be backing when push comes to shove..

heresyandwitchcraft · 15/06/2018 09:58

Science

Thanks for your very well-written post. I feel the same way.

I agree with some other users here, in that I think we have to try and keep speaking up on Mumsnet. I am still so new here, but finding this space of witty, warm, educated voices was an incredible relief. So I am going to try and stay here, because if just one other person feels confused, heads over to this site, and realises they're not alone in being troubled by what's going on... Then for me it's worth it.

HonkyWonkWoman · 15/06/2018 10:00

Freedom of speech is being eroded all over the World. This scares me!
What happened to:

I disagree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

ShovingLeopard · 15/06/2018 10:01

Can anyone link me to the thread where MN have set out which terminology is now verboten, please? I can't find it, and I keep seeing posts about people being upset about it, but I don't know what's causing the upset.

MsMcWoodle · 15/06/2018 10:04

Excellent post. Thanks.

terryleather · 15/06/2018 10:04

but finding this space of witty, warm, educated voices was an incredible relief.

That's what I felt like when I first found myself here heresy and I still do - MN is one of my favourite place to spend time online and I've met some great people irl because of it but I won't kneel and that's what MN seems to now expect us to do. Fuck.That.Shit.

hungryhippie · 15/06/2018 10:10

Another autistic here. I totally agree with your post. Lying is so stressful and makes me feel ill. I'm not leaving yet but if all the posters I admire, and have learnt so much from get banned, then I will because there will be no point in being here.

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