trans women showing solidarity with women

[speakingwoman]

Just wanted to say that my trans friend has done this over the ten years I've known her, particularly in the workplace.

Sorry I can't give all details and yes I know that for many of you the fact she is a trans women means she can't be pro women.

The odd thing is that when forced to talk about trans stuff she never claims to be a supporter of women. No one asks her. It never comes up. You'd have no idea - you'd think she was just another TRA.

Does anyone recognise this? Do we need to invite ordinary trans women to think and talk about what they can do for women?

thank you

@Offred
We have been advised by KateMumsnet this morning that class analysis is not permitted with regard to natal males who are covered by the EA 2010 in the protected category "gender reassignment".

The protected categories are age, disability, gender reassignment, race, religion or belief, sex, sexual orientation, marriage and civil partnership, and pregnancy and maternity.

The middle ground no longer exists.

The middle ground still exists; that position in the debate where you can say of both sides "sometimes you're justified and sometimes you go too far", and for that position to be a true reflection of both your true understanding of the facts and your own personal sense of what is morally right.

The middle ground still exists; it just takes more fortitude to stand there on your own in no man's land speaking your own truth with your own voice, rather than seeking the comfort of a full group of supporters at either pole.

viewing trans women as automatically brave and heroic for living their truth

This isn't where we went wrong, this is class analysis gone wrong. This is thinking that a prevailing notion about a group speaks entirely for the individuals within it, with no scope for individual personhood. There's no shame in having fallen into it, it's human nature. It makes things easier to group people and to define them as such, and it takes effort to remember that every one among us has the capacity to be a hero and a villain. There are no angels or demons in this world; not when speaking of individual people. People are worth far more in all their complexity than as any oversimplified notion, regardless how positive, just as you said before speaking.

It's being able to analyse a class AND being able too see the individual merits and failings of a person OR their argument that is the middle ground.

At some point I will have to crack and ask to be educated about class analysis. It clearly has a specific technical meaning.
But not tonight. Everyone is either fixated on the forum rules or off watching the Grenfell anniversary coverage.

If it was not possible for trans people to be well thought of on here then Miranda Yardley wouldn’t get so many demonstrations of affection and gratitude every single time he posts.

smh. If you think MY is in anyway representative of the majority of trans women out there then we are definitely on different planets. The very fact MY is happy to be called 'he' by you (or anyone), and that you are happy to do so AND refer to that as a demonstration of affection is perhaps one of the most remarkably bizarre things I've ever read.

The fact that it is held up as an example of how it is possible for trans people to be well thought of on here is a statement that is so far detached from reality that 'alternate universe' doesn't even begin to describe it.

There is never, ever going to be resolution for some people.

"The middle ground still exists; it just takes more fortitude to stand there on your own in no man's land speaking your own truth with your own voice, rather than seeking the comfort of a full group of supporters at either pole."

This. I probably surprised a few people by saying that I support the trans widows thread but I believe doing so is right.

What a weird post SMG. My point was it’s not about trans it’s an ideological difference hence MN hive mind isn’t mindlessly hating on all trans people because they are trans and that’s why posters hate them, which is what some people repeatedly try to imply.

I was not saying referring to MY by his choice of pronoun was a ‘demonstration of affection’, I was referring to the expressions of gratitude and flowers and gin he frequently gets on here... how weird...

Are you angry that MY preferred pronoun is ‘he’ or something?

And yes, MY and others are well thought of on here, because they have taken the time to contribute re women and girls, this is feminism chat and none of this has ever been about people being trans.

And no, I wasn’t saying MY is a representative for all trans people. I was saying MY is trans. There are other trans posters who are respected too, not all of them as gender critical as MY.

The post was in response to the OP which was worrying about this board being anti-trans and being GC meaning she had to stop being friends with her trans friend.

The intention was to point out that it isn’t about being trans, or hating trans people, it’s about the conflict with sex that gender represents and specifically the replacement of sex with gender and proposals for self ID... Those things are things being asked/lobbied for by activists, they are not anything to do with who trans people are.