Calorie counting

[CantankerousCamel]

I’ve just been reading about what calorie deficits women put themselves in to lose weight or to remain at a ‘goal weight’ they are preposterous.
Women regularly consuming half or just over the reccomended daily amount of food in order to fit what the world considers ‘correct’ Weight.

Thing is, many of them state they’re within BMI ranges and that they wouldn’t be if they ate recommended amounts of food.

Surely this is a clear way society prevents women from being free thinking, strong and sated.

I know when I was strong, athletic and healthy I was considered overweight and not just by a small amount.

The recommended calorie allowance is completely arbitrary, it doesn’t take into account the size of the person, it just generalises over all women regardless. It’s not helpful. It also doesn’t take into account the fact that people take in calories differently to each other or new research on the effect of gut microbes on health and weight.

All that considered, women who are living in tiny amounts of calories 800-1200 a day, are not healthy. This should not be considered normal

My conversation is about whether women are given unsustainable weight goals in order to keep them placid and distracted. Surely if you’re living with less than needed calories, brain power and energy is affected

Many inactive, older women only require small amounts of calories. It really does depend on your age/size/activity level etc, so impossible to generalise. Obesity is a bigger health risk for the majority of women in the UK than consuming too few calories.

I do think that encouraging women to be insecure, hungry, preoccupied, distracted, has a double whammy in getting them buy loads of shit (so capitalism encourages women to feel inadequate and ugly) and also to occupy our thoughts so we don't have too many that society would not be keen on ie of a disruptive nature...

The emphasis should be on healthy nourishment and being strong and active and fit as you can be for your personal circumstances. Of course obesity isn’t healthy but when I was in my twenties and a size 6-8 I was strong as hell and had a BMI of about 23 despite being tiny. I was just dense. I could also run for hours, was fit as a flea and didn’t give a fuck about what the scales said.

Marketing generally, for all manner of things, is designed to keep us in thrall. It’s designed to make us feel lesser so that if we just buy product x we will be thinner/prettier/more loved. Mass media keeps us distracted and compliant. Heavy debt from student life/mortgages keeps us in check too. (God I sound like such an old commie- I’m not I’m all for capitalism just with checks and balances.)

It’s another reason I’m so angry about the targeting of women’s sport - sport gives women confidence in their bodies and strength. That can look many different ways - a long distance runner will have a different body shape to a judoka but both will be strong and fit.

I think capitalism is more to blame for encouraging and promoting excessive consumption of empty calories as 'treats'.

Agree with that navigator it’s almost a sexual preoccupation with food.

Women’s shape has long been a stick to beat them with. I remember seeing an exhibition of tropical corsets for women in various far flung bits of empire. The idea of being ‘straight laced’ and restrained and a certain shape to be morally acceptable is not new

Oh, DISCUSS! I've got a foot in both camps. On the one hand, I'm a town planner with an interest in sustainable transport, and, basically, people don't walk and cycle in this country because there aren't a) safe cycle and pedestrian routes b) local amenities within walking distance of people's houses. So people drive everywhere and get fat. And it has more of an effect on women than men, statistically. (Very crudely put but I could go on for ever about this.)
Conversely, when I was an angsty teenager with a diet preoccupation I read "The Beauty Myth" and thought "Yes, this is true." Its main thesis is that Western women are taught to believe that if you aren't "beautiful" - for which, often, read "thin" - then you are not only ugly, but lazy, worthless, self-indulgent, stupid, unlovable, etc etc etc. So, yeah, of COURSE weight is a feminist issue. A couple of years ago a guy I sang with was shocked when I and another woman told him that Weight Watchers and so on actually refer to treats and drinks as "sins", as if all the cakes in the world were merely versions of Eve's apple.
I don't think it's really a plot to suppress women, it's just another example of how the unthinking attitudes of society end up oppressing us - and in this case, it's the women doing the oppressing as much as men. Sure, it's (predominantly) male highway engineers who have set our cities up to prioritise private cars, the bully-boys of the roads, and told our kids it's their fault if they get hit. But it's (predominantly) women who have promoted the notion that a major goal in a woman's life should be Being Beautiful, and that it's altogether virtuous and heroic to starve yourself in the pursuit of that goal, even if it means you don't function as well (as you point out), even if it makes you feel physically and mentally terrible. And it is "virtuous" even though it does absolutely nothing for anyone else at all. (Does anyone gain anything, careful dieter, when they see you picking away at your beautifully-made salad of spiralised vegetables? Have you healed them, helped them, made them feel happier? )
There have been times when the Diet Cult has made me rather embarrassed of my sex. Women sitting droning on about their "points". I just think we need to throw off the shackles of the rules we set for ourselves, and maybe go for a nice walk instead.

A couple of years ago a guy I sang with was shocked when I and another woman told him that Weight Watchers and so on actually refer to treats and drinks as "sins", as if all the cakes in the world were merely versions of Eve's apple
This makes me fume too. Food is food there's no 'good' and 'bad' but agree that advertising within a capitalist culture is designed to make us feel ugly so that we consume more 'diets' and anti-wrinkle cream. neither of which work by the way. If they did why would we need more of them?

they're syns (synergy ) according to the site. not that i approve of either ww or slimming world diets regardless.

I feel like things are changing but not necessarily for the better. Now there's a fashion for really big bums which is still all about looks and not about health. A lot of stars and instagram models have had surgery to get the look. I'm not sure how that impacts on calorie counting but if clean eating is anything to go by, girls are still restricting food even if many do feel the need to do x amount of squats everyday.

they're syns synergy
oops unnecessary rant there!! Just, when women speaking about only so many sins its usually cakes and sweet treats they are on about so I assumed....

I'm seeing a slight change amongst friends and colleagues recently towards wanting to be stronger and fitter rather than just skinny. they want to be able to lift weights too and have some muscle definition . i do both and get quizzed on my diet and routines daily by women wanting to know how to get into it. as it actually takes a lot of eating (right) to get to, i hope it continues and the trend for skinny and unhealthy low cal diets disappear

"My conversation is about whether women are given unsustainable weight goals in order to keep them placid and distracted."

wat?

Yes, it's syns, but the connection between them and Eve's apple is absolutely right and deliberate.

Syns is particularly grim.
‘Clean’ eating is a loaded term too.

What’s the alternative - dirty eating? Ffs. No wonder orthorexia is on the rise.

A move towards fitness and health is what’s needed. Fitness of any type, so a bit of hill walking, bike ride out with the kids, walk out by the reservoir- right up to ultrarunning. Whatever suits you, and the right fuel for it (and frankly no one is climbing several munros in a day on lettuce and açai berries. That shit needs a decent breakfast...)

I actually think this crap will start to get pushed at men as well, once the female market is saturated.

Slimming World changed "sins" to "syns" a few years ago in an attempt to break the connection between certain foods and being "bad". it didn't work - not when the new word they chose sounds identical...

men are increasingly being targeted in this way and considering more men than women are overweight in this country, it's not surprising.

For men it is protein shakes and the like - which can be damaging to health if not used correctly.

Fat is a feminist issue is a great read if you want to see the connection between eating disorders and the world we live in.

I actually think this crap will start to get pushed at men as well, once the female market is saturated.

Start to?
Take a look at a muscle or fitness forum or magazines sometime.
I lurk on a muscle/fitness forum which is mostly men obsessing over six packs, biceps and body fat %.

This is the same for men a healthy male bmi is difficult to achieve, most athletes are considered overweight going off bmi yet a healthy calorie amount for a man would leave a moderately active man seriously lacking. There is some very poor advice out there for both men and women.

I'm 5'4, female and work in an office. I really don't need 2000 cals per day.

Horses for courses.

I keep erasing and re-typing this because I am having trouble expressing what I am trying to say, but here goes. Unpopular opinion alert (potentially): Some moderation of calories is necessary in an environment full of cheap, tasty, calorically-dense food.

I want to be very clear that I know women are held to beauty standards which are actively harmful to them. Yes, men face pressure too, but while they are pressured to be athletic, women are pressured to be as thin as possible (while still having a large butt and breasts, natch). It is unhealthy and unfair. And it does indeed cause women to starve themselves in the pursuit of that ideal.

That all being said, I spent a lot of time in my younger years following the popular fat acceptance bloggers, and I have noticed that there is an all-or-nothing mindset with regards to calorie counting (or even just the idea that one should monitor ones intake) which is common within the movement. I believe it is a reaction to the tremendously unrealistic and harmful dieting advice out there, but it is unrealistic and harmful in its own way.

Keeping an eye on your food will not transform you into a joyless husk consumed by anxiety and self-hatred. Losing weight can be as simple as eating 100 fewer calories per day than you normally would; that's what, 2 oreo cookies? You don't have to choke down 7 spinach leaves for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. You don't have to swear off any of the foods that make life worth living.

I don't want to go into it too much (this is long enough), but I have seen various family members going through health issues not because they are lazy, slovenly, gluttonous fatties, but because they live normal lives in an environment with lots of great food. Despite the fact that a couple of them are fairly active, their weight is still making life more difficult than it needs to be. My aunt, especially, refuses to consider dieting because she just knows that it's a one-way ticket to an eating disorder, but for the others it's more that they are convinced that 1) cutting calories is, by definition, torture, and 2) it is impossible to lose weight unless you are significantly depriving yourself. Maybe if your goal is Kate Moss, yeah, but if you're just looking to make flying in coach a little more comfortable then that is a goal within reach for the vast majority of people.

Fat is definitely a feminist issue, but I wish we didn't have to throw the baby (of health-consciousness, I guess) out with the bathwater (... of unhealthy beauty ideals and practices). Being aware of what you eat isn't the same as being ruled by it.

Apologies for the ramble.