Women policing women

[therealposieparker]

Why do women do this?

Why do women, particularly left wing women, police each other's language and actions so much worse than men?

Even Germaine Greer is being hailed as no feminist for a few comments, despite the incredible work she's done in the past.

Feminists are pretty awful at this call out culture, I think men on the left do it to women but not to each other. I have a feeling this is why women are more likely to be religiously observant too, but that may be a different conversation. However I instinctively think it all feeds from the same conditioning, women "to be seen to be" XXX in order to compete with other women.

As of late I've noticed more odious behaviour from supposed feminists and it's made friends of mine abandon that label.

Women don't have much power over men. If they want to exercise power they can do it more easily with women.

Even Germaine Greer is being hailed as no feminist for a few comments

Minimising rape isn’t “a few comments” though, is it? She actively and deliberately minimised rape. Which is hardly the action of a feminist.

No idea about the rest of it, I’ve been told I can’t be a feminist because I’m a SAHM, but the reality is I have no choice. Out of school hours care is patchy here, and with my children having ASD diagnoses it’s all but impossible.

I agree posie.

I’ve come away from some threads feeling ashamed to be associated with it.

There has been a definitely culture shift recently. I haven't thought enough about the women policing women aspect to comment yet but I'm very alarmed by this new regime in which you must condemn someone for having a slightly different opinion. It should be possible for a woman (or man) to like and respect GG without having to agree with every word she utters. Even if you staunchly disagree, why can't you open your mind to the debate? Camilla Long wrote a good piece in the Times about the feminists rounding on Germaine.

Calling out, piling on and silencing is weird. The same freezing out that happens to girls in schools, which we call bullying, happens to adult women by women all the time.

I don’t think it’s recent.

Women have always struggled to rid themselves of the idea, which comes from patriarchy and is a tool of oppression, that an individual woman is collectively responsible in all the choices that she makes about her own life. There has always been ‘you should do’ in feminist rhetoric.

It’s one of the reasons GG was so influential TBH, as a libertarian.

It’s partly about power. We have so little of it ourselves, collectively and individually as women, that it manifests where it’s possible. This usually means race to the top with other women. You’d think in a movement such as this there would be more self-awareness and women would want to hold each other’s successes up as something to be applauded, by sadly it doesn’t always work that way. I think it’s abot socialisation, again, unfortunately.

I think there’s also an element of policing when someone “steps out of rank.”

I've seen a few feminists in my life time begin to get recognition and the vitriol from some quarters is frankly frightening. I'm always far more shocked when a woman is willing to crush another women within feminism to stand above her,.

Honestly? I think it’s mostly jealousy. It’s the desire to have the power that other successful woman has, and the inability to recognise it as such.

I mostly get bothered by women who fail to recognise that certain choices are only available to them because they have a certain degree of privilege and then proceed to use their ability to have made said choice as a stick to beat less privileged women with.

It makes me want to scream.

I don't see why women shouldn't call out GG, just because she has done pioneering work in the past does not exempt her from criticism for her views. Why do women have to be 'nice' to each other. GG has a public platform and makes controversial statements - I don't see why she shouldn't get a robust response. Same with Julie Burchill, Julie Bindel, Mary Beard or any other commentator. I don't have to agree with everything they say because they are a woman.

OP, don't you see the irony of you attempting to police women's behaviour to be nicer to each other?

I agree Offred, but women cannot be expected to constantly apologise for that,. I do get rather bored of privilege measuring. Is a white working class child more or less privileged than a black middle class child? When do we get to climb out of a class?

I doubt posie is trying to say women should be nicer or GG is beyond criticism...

She’s talking about ‘calling out’ which is a modern thing that involves condemnation rather than critique.

I do not want women to apologise for it! I would like those women to see beyond the ends of their own noses TBH and to understand that their own choices about their own lives are just that and not some standard to hold other women into if they want a feminist membership card.

I don't think it's just a women thing. It happens in many political groups, at least on the Left. Take how trade union strikes work, anyone who doesn't take part is a scab and a traitor, some have even been killed over the years.

Then you have the current young generation and their 'no platform' like those who tried to stop Germaine Greer coming to Cardiff Uni - this was before her most recent rape comments, though I know she's said similar things before.

Once you start nitpicking about ‘objectively feminist choices’ over individual private lives you are creating exclusivity that naturally preferences women who have a greater number of choices.

The fact remains that every single woman’s choices are a negotiation with patriarchy. That’s the whole point of feminism IMO.

I agree, and it is very unappealing. The entire inter-sectional thing turns me off.

I don’t want to buy any ideology wholesale. I want to think about ideas with nuance and detail.

And Germaine Greer is a feminist to whom we all owe a Massive Debt.

There has been an outbreak on here that began with the thread about the child’s surname and has led to threads about surnames on marriage and SM accounts, all shaming women for letting feminism down...

I think there is a balance that needs to be made.

It needs to be possible to point out that some decisions/actions have been made by ourselves and others that are strongly influenced in a negative way by the society we live in. This needs to be done as how else can anyone be made aware that they might be letting their internalised misogyny/privilege/whatever dictate to them.

It is important to be able to disagree with others. It’s also bloody important to not let that disagreement become so deep and vitriolic or patronising that you lose the important message. Which is difficult when most people don’t deal well with what they see as criticism. (Myself included!)

The fact remains that every single woman’s choices are a negotiation with patriarchy.

YY

And Queasy, I agree with your whole post.

I agree with critiquing the way in which women must negotiate the patriarchy, I agree with critiquing harmful choices and the context within which they are made.... I disagree with rubbishing a woman for not keeping in line.

Feminists are pretty bad for this, but a lack of skill in conflict resolution happens in friendships too. We police each other pretty harshly about lots of choices, breastfeeding, c-sections, shit loads around mother hood.... whether we work or not, everything last thing.

I've never ever heard men even shun a serial cheater!!

I love this thread! I’d also live to find a way that we can transcend all of this hullshit and work together without the drama getting in the way.