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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Radical Feminism Banned From Radical Bookfair

66 replies

GeordieTerf · 05/06/2018 21:12

medium.com/@GappyTales/radical-feminism-banned-from-radical-bookfair-331f619ae0ce

I hope it's okay to post this here. I'm not sure if Harvey is on here or not?

Basically Harvey was asked to leave the book fair event on Sunday after handing out leaflets on women's rights. They told her she could instead distribute the leaflets outside the hall, which she did for a short while. During that time she was verbally-harassed by a group of people. After which, she was asked to leave!

You could not make this shit up!

OP posts:
thebewilderness · 06/06/2018 02:40

Once the transgender advocates named women's rights anti-trans anything women say about women's rights is hate speech.

FoxOnSecurity · 06/06/2018 02:41

It was yes, probably a tad far really but still good,best place for them leaflets by the sounds of it

thebewilderness · 06/06/2018 02:49

Down the memory hole with women's rights, and the bully boys congratulate themselves on their righteousness.

J4nice · 06/06/2018 03:21

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Elletorro · 06/06/2018 07:40

Please don’t delete the posts above. This is who we are dealing with.

Kristallnacht

SuitedandBooted · 06/06/2018 07:49

OP, move this to AIBU

More people need to see it.

Ereshkigal · 06/06/2018 08:07

Once the transgender advocates named women's rights anti-trans anything women say about women's rights is hate speech.

This.

Ereshkigal · 06/06/2018 08:09

It was yes, probably a tad far really but still good,best place for them leaflets by the sounds of it

Are you trying to be funny? Do you actually think things like this help your cause and make transactivists look like reasonable people whose demands are sensible? They don't. HTH.

bd67th · 06/06/2018 08:09

@qumquat She was Lucyloveslife1 on twitter, but the account, and by extension the statement about Goldsmiths, are gone.

TheWizardofWas · 06/06/2018 08:21

I popped in there. Didn’t see any of this activity, but I did notice that radical basically means trans/sex work feminism/queer and a teeny bit of racism issues. Not a lot of socialism - well none actually - and a restricted palette of radicalness. But fine, if that is where the young uns are. Not fine if they cant see beyond the end if their nose though. Not sure if Goldsmiths are centrally involved. Had the impression it was just a hire. But clearly implicated through the actions of Matthew Fuller, if the original report is anything to go by.

CorbynTrouserPress · 06/06/2018 08:22

My pamphlet was fact based, moderate, and contained long understood and really quite basic feminist ideas regarding gender as a tool of oppression, as well as perfectly reasonable concerns about the impact on women if we are to lose our sex based rights and spaces. (From the link).

Which bit of this do you find unacceptable, Fox?

nauticant · 06/06/2018 08:26

Perhaps it isn't the leaflet itself that's the problem but it's the source. Maybe the leaflet, otherwise OK, has been tainted by the touch of a radical feminist woman.

Ereshkigal · 06/06/2018 08:26

but the account, and by extension the statement about Goldsmiths, are gone.

She talks about it in the Feminist Current interview I posted.

Also I think @PencilsinSpace has a copy.

R0wantrees · 06/06/2018 08:36

this is the statement that The Depford People Project made prior to The House of Commons 'We Need to Talk' meeting:
www.facebook.com/lubelluledotcom/posts/10156110925077980
(extract)
"Statement from Working class community workers from Deptford.
We are attending the women’s meeting at the House of Commons today. We would like to offer an explanation as to why this is necessary.

After many years of working at grass roots within our community we have recently been made aware of an issue that directly effects the working class and women in our area. The changes to the Gender Recognition Act will allow birth certificate changes without transition. We are an LGBTQ supporting group and we have concerns about how these changes will impact women only safe spaces.
We have never and will never support hate...

The majority of our recent projects have been working with rough sleepers, the homeless and those that have been excluded from society. The issues they face include: unsupported/ mental health illness, sexual violence and prostitution, childhood trauma and abuse, domestic violence, poverty, ex care system issues, addiction, prison, rehab, homelessness and austerity.
The people in our community that we represent are the most likely to access/ be placed in sex segregated services. Some have and will access all sex segregated services mentioned.

Our local political and community organisations have been infiltrated by a group of well meaning white middle class Goldsmiths (uni) students. These people although well intentioned have rail roaded many vital projects by introducing identity policies and intersectional thinking without truly understanding or experiencing working class issues.

Meetings we have attended for the purpose of discussing community housing projects and women’s wellness etc have been used as a platform to re educate working class people on the new academic language expected within our organisations.
As anyone from a working class back ground will tell you, these theories and ideologies rarely translate into working class communities.

The extremely small number of transsexual (I use the old term as this has a very different meaning to the university umbrella term currently thrown about) member of the community are and have always been accepted and protected.
However we have now been informed that transgender people are being routinely abused (mis gendered) and should be protected above all other marginalised groups. We can see that all that has actually changed is privileged mainly white students have adopted a set of gender identities that allow them to be considered marginalised. The people we encountered were far from marginalised. In fact they were highly educated, openly classist and aggressive.

This new politics doesn’t equate in our community or for the people we support. We are dealing with working class issues with severely marginalised people and the trans lobby is a gentrification of working class social and political movements. Note the difference between trans lobby and trans people.

No one will discuss our concerns regarding self identification. Our local Labour Party has refused to comment or debate with the working class community. We are attending the meeting this evening as this is only place that is willing to discuss theses issues.
When we are being verbally abused and called fascists and phobic because we are concerned about the effects of policy change on marginalised people it is a direct attack on working class women and grass roots organisations.

So please when you share information about this eventand attempt to shut it down be aware that you are complicit in the silencing of not only women but working class people who have not afforded the privileged of a safe space or university education."

OldCrone · 06/06/2018 08:36

Fox
So hands out a leaflet peddling hate towards transgender people and doesn't like being challenged?

What was the wording of the part that you thought was 'peddling hate towards transgender people'?

GenderApostate · 06/06/2018 08:39

The Brownshirts are gathering again I see.

Ereshkigal · 06/06/2018 08:40

Where "challenged" equated to being threatened, sexually harassed, followed and given vile personal abuse.

R0wantrees · 06/06/2018 08:43

Helen Lewis New Stataesman article,
'The madness of our gender debate, where feminists defend slapping a 60-year-old woman: It seems swivel-eyed to condemn rhetorical “attacks” and blithely ignore physical ones.'
(extracat)
The Wolf affair also demonstrates another alarming phenomenon: the left getting high on its own supply of self-righteousness. “Some feminists have a different conception of gender to me” gets smudged into “some feminists talk about me in ways that I find offensive” and on to “some feminists are basically Hitler, trying to eradicate people like me”.

Once you reach the last statement, then of course you can slap a woman and still think of yourself as a good person. She wants to kill you; a mere punch is self-defence. (I’m not exaggerating about the language. The Edinburgh branch of Action for Trans Health tweeted the day after the attack: “Punching TERFs is the same as punching Nazis. Fascism must be smashed with the greatest violence to ensure our collective liberation from it.”)

www.newstatesman.com/politics/feminism/2018/04/madness-our-gender-debate-where-feminists-defend-slapping-60-year-old?

Ereshkigal · 06/06/2018 09:01

Lucy Mcdonagh, in the interview with MM:

I want to tell those people who have gentrified our whole existence that our safe spaces are not for sale. That our experience is not for them to redefine. I want to let those people know that they are complicit in the victimization of already victimized people. Mostly, I want to start a conversation about social privilege and how the trans political and social movement is driven through [academia] and is suppressing the rights of working class women.”

She also talks about her feelings about their promotion of "sex work" and the damage it does to poor women.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 06/06/2018 09:30

That's a very powerful statement, R0wantrees. Bookmarked.

R0wantrees · 06/06/2018 09:38

Prawn More background about Depford People Project and interview with Lucy Mcdonagh in the Feminist Current article linked uphthread.

hipsterfun · 06/06/2018 09:40

These people although well intentioned have rail roaded many vital projects by introducing identity policies and intersectional thinking without truly understanding or experiencing working class issues.

What’s that that’s paved with good intentions?

I think ‘good intentions’ is generous, tbh. Disrupting meaningful community projects in order to work out one's own identity and/or psychological issues isn’t well intentioned. The complicated real world isn’t a therapy group for self-absorbed young adults.

LangCleg · 06/06/2018 09:43

I want to tell those people who have gentrified our whole existence that our safe spaces are not for sale. That our experience is not for them to redefine. I want to let those people know that they are complicit in the victimization of already victimized people. Mostly, I want to start a conversation about social privilege and how the trans political and social movement is driven through [academia] and is suppressing the rights of working class women.

I really bloody LOVE Lucy. I wish she hadn't deactivated on Twitter - but I can imagine the game wasn't worth the candle for anyone trying to help people who are ACTUALLY marginalised.

R0wantrees · 06/06/2018 09:48

Disrupting meaningful community projects in order to work out one's own identity and/or psychological issues isn’t well intentioned.

Thread below worth reading & relevant:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3266198-No-True-Transwoman-transadvocates-question-whether-TW-is-genuine-after-said-TW-sexually-harasses-women-in-homeless-shelter

AngryAttackKittens · 06/06/2018 10:40

Where can I find this so I can buy and burn all the books in my backyard and then pee on them

Because there's nothing that says "righteous warrior for justice" like a good book burning followed by marking your territory by piddling on it like a poorly socialized dog.