Trans is not gay ...

[OrchidInTheSun]

A great twitter rant: threadreaderapp.com/thread/1002681901491130371.html

wow that is powerful

i completely understand why, but still my crappy female socialisation winces at the direct wording and total lack of NATALT

hope to hear more from those groups whose struggles have been appropriated by TRAs

Cogent. Extraordinary that "queer eugenics" is now a thing.

Jesus Christ, that is horrible!

Trans is not gay.

No. No it's not. So now that we're agreed that trans people aren't simply gay people we can stop telling them that simply being gay should be enough for them; it clearly isn't; trans is not gay!

You tell us to leave you alone and you tell us what you will do if we dont. Well we're never going to leave you alone, do you hear, never. There will never be a time when there is no one to say that a man cannot be a woman, that no one is born in the wrong body

Christ. So those medical professionals, those psychologists, those doctors who come to the conclusion that whatever is driving a person to the brink of ...god knows what... is often their body; those professionals with the best interests of that person in mind agree that it is their body that is wrong, I mean fuck 'em. Fuck 'em, and that's my justification for whatever hounding is being alluded to with "we're never going to leave you alone".

I mean tell me an interpretation where that isn't sinister and threatening.

trans is not normal

What a lovely way to put it. Even if you think trans is purely a psychological disorder; not normal? Post-partum depression is not normal. Anxiety is not normal you freak, you (Note: I only use psychological disorders I have myself experienced.)

So quit while you're ahead, you have all the rights to which you're entitled, there are no more.

Except the right to peaceably enjoy life apparently, and not to be villified and shamed as "abnormal".

We will happily leave you alone with your every human right intact.

Except for the fact that we won't ever leave you alone. For as long as you feel the need to alter your "wrong" body, we will not be leaving you alone. Unless you just stop being trans and start being gay, then we might... oh, but trans isn't gay.

Fucking offensive nonsense.

I agree changey

I've been wincing a lot recently

rat

I don't remember reading where she said that transpeople are not gay

I was just about to post this

I don't remember reading where she said that transpeople are not gay

Okay, so trans people may be gay or not just as anybody may be; for the most part it really has very little to do with their being trans. She says the following:

"Do you think we will allow all the sweet camp boys and the strong tomboy girls to be mutilated, to have gay children cut up and turned into a nightmare of sterile heterosexuality?"

Which implies that "trans" is something external to those nice, gay children that is imposed upon them.

But it isn't externally imposed is it; as supported by the medical specialists in the field it is something from within them; a deep and untenable discord with their biological sex. This is not something that is characterised by being gay. This is one of the main characteristics of being trans.

She doesn't say trans people are not gay, because they may or may not be. But it's pretty evident that trans is not gay in the sense of what the defining characteristics are. So I was expanding her statement "trans is not gay" to mean "trans people are not simply gay people" on those pretty self-evident grounds.

We should have known when the Gay was erased from Pride so that no one felt left out. Newsflash, it's right to leave people out when they have nothing to do with it.

I did notice recently that Gay Pride had become PrideTM - hijacked by the gender brigade.

But it isn't externally imposed is it; as supported by the medical specialists in the field it is something from within them; a deep and untenable discord with their biological sex. This is not something that is characterised by being gay. This is one of the main characteristics of being trans.

How do you explain the enormous rise in young women identifying as trans Rat? Do you think that they all have a 'deep and untenable discord with their biological sex' or do you think a lot of them are struggling with puberty and trans seems like a really good way of explaining that discomfort? Can you explain why it's mainly young women who are being referred and yet that people transitioning in later life are almost all men? How about people like Pips Bunce? Do they have a 'deep and untenable discord with their biological sex' when they identify as a woman on a couple of days a week and as a bloke the rest of the time?

Aah i see

Expanding her statement

Ok

The current context, especially on Twitter, is important as it is Pride month. There are escalating threats of violence towards women, especially lesbians, described as 'terfs'.

There is some context here:
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1003233125751840769.html

James Kirkup wrote:
'Fear & Loathing Grips the Gender Debate'
(extract)

"The relevant legal and political authorities would indeed pay attention to that fear, and maybe even do something, even if that was just listening to those women, meeting them, answering their questions.

But that doesn’t seem to be happening. It’s because those women have been – quite successfully and even skilfully – demonised and stigmatised, put beyond the pale of civilised debate as those who question orthodoxy often are. They’ve been given a name, a name that means they’re bad people, people who should not speak and should not be heard. That name is “Terf,” which once meant “Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist” but now appears to stand in its own right as a term of abuse and dismissal alongside the other short, harsh words often used to question the worth and virtue of women.

And that small number of people who direct violence and abuse at “Terfs” are swimming in a larger sea of contempt and dismissal. Their conduct takes place in a social context where hostility to “Terfs” has become not just normal but even amusing, where there is no social cost to talking about and perhaps even inciting violence towards women who hold “unacceptable” views. Simply, some people, including people who would never themselves engage in that sort of violence, are doing things that make violent discourse and even violence look and feel OK. Sadly, they include journalists and politicians, people who parade their support for minority groups but speak about feminist women in terms they would never use about other people."
blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/fear-and-loathing-grips-the-gender-debate/

"How do you explain the enormous rise in young women identifying as trans Rat?"

Because until very recently there were visible lesbian role models but not visible trans men role models. Now there are both so people can identify with the role models which are most appropriate rather than ending up lesbian by default.

Lesbian by default?

Expanding her statement

Indeed. She says "Trans is not gay" - meaning (one can only assume) that the push for trans rights is not the same as the push for gay rights. And I agree with her that "Trans is not gay" because, well, obviously.

That's the point I was making.

Orchid would you like me to answer all of those questions? I'm on a limited timescale here...

How do you explain the enormous rise in young women identifying as trans Rat? Do you think that they all have a 'deep and untenable discord with their biological sex' or do you think a lot of them are struggling with puberty and trans seems like a really good way of explaining that discomfort?

No I don't think they all have a deep and untenable discord with their biological sex, that's why a good number of them don't go through with transition (see the oft quoted detransition rates amongst females). I explain it in much the same way as you; some are trans and some, now more aware of trans as it hits the public eye, think they are trans then desist. People who "desist" are not trans, are they. Just like when I thought I might be a lesbian at 14 but then realised I totally wasn't; I wasn't lesbian for a bit and then stopped, I wasn't a lesbian ever. I was simply exploring my sexuality. That's par for the course when you're a teenager working out your place in the world.

No they're not trans. But many of them take puberty blockers, take testosterone, have their breasts cut off and then realise they're not trans.

Nowadays you probably would have identified as trans. Hopefully you would have realised that you were exploring your sexuality before you did irreparable damage to your body.

GibbertyFlibbert
rather than ending up lesbian by default.

Wow.

Waddle

"How do you explain the enormous rise in young women identifying as trans Rat?"

Because until very recently there were visible lesbian role models but not visible trans men role models. Now there are both so people can identify with the role models which are most appropriate rather than ending up lesbian by default

That's an interesting interpretation.Especially "now there are both". I thought there had always been both, that it was supposed to be an intrinsic immutable part of a trans individual?

But many of them take puberty blockers, take testosterone, have their breasts cut off and then realise they're not trans.

I'm not sure "many" of them do. As far as I'm aware there are no statistics regarding what treatment any detransitioners have undergone.

Nowadays you probably would have identified as trans.

I probably would have been non-binary, in all honestly.

At first that realisation caused me consternation, but now I think perhaps my teenaged years would have been easier for me to get my head around if that label had existed for me to apply to myself. At the time, at least.

It's interesting to imagine it actually.

How does anyone know if anyone who carries on wishes they'd stayed as they were? We don't.

Transitioning as an adult, as a considered decision, is absolutely fine. If adults want to pump their bodies full of hormones and mutilate themselves, that's their prerogative. Encouraging pubescent and prepubescent YP to do it is child abuse.

Who's encouraging? You take them to the doctors, I assume because they're distressed, and you trust the doctor to talk through their recommended course of action, no? Doctor's are usually in the habit of encouraging patients to take what they believe to be in their best interests, but then they are usually the ones best qualified to do so.

Oh come on. You're not this dim

juzza

I agree

She is angry and who am i to tell her she can't be

Teenagers having trans role models will be one factor in the skyrocketing trans stats, and I welcome the fact that teenagers who are truly struggling with their trans identities might find it easier to accept themselves now. But it would be silly to pretend this is the only factor. When is there ever just one factor behind such a marked social trend?

Anyone can see that being trans is cool in some teen circles. To deny this is just dishonest. Having mental health issues is also cool among teens, and I remember this well from my own teenage years. These things are never simple.

With all that said, I object to the language and threatening tone of the twitter thread and think it is monumentally unhelpful. It comes across as if there’s a lot of hatred behind it.