Words have meaning, definitions are important.

[JellySlice]

So when did the meaning of 'gender' change?

From the Pocket OED 1942

jelly I wholeheartedly agree with your former colleague, but I have to be polite to the authors, so I don't allow myself to tell them they're being namby pamby, much as I would love to

@flowersonthepiano - good for you! (I mean that in a sincere way.)

I hate the conflation of gender and sex, particularly when it is used in a scientific context.

These definitions are crucial, as SW understands very well. There's a link here shared by SwearyG of ManFriday to a radio interview she did (you need to scroll down a bit). The interviewer points it out.

The link takes me to "Alternative Care Services’ Managing Director challenges ‘Man Friday’ protests". Was that what you intended, flowersonthepiano?

Yes, it's there if you scroll down. It was put up by Sweary's 'opponent' in the debate. (Sorry for the late reply, been out)

god what did we say Pratchet. I swear it was innocent?

I remember one of my posts said "Are they saying sex is the same as gender?" (approx)
why was that deleted?

I correctly sexed Stephen Whittle and suggested that someone may have encountered mean cool girls at school who were unkind to someone.

You "sexed" them makes them sound like a chick or a kitten! (Sorry, not helpful.)

Most producers of word salad are in dire desperate need of flowersonthepiano editing skills.

I agree with NotTerf's etymology.

I guess we will look into printed dictionaries of the future and see the additional (perhaps only) definition of 'woman' to "anyone who says they feel like one". And "adult human female" will either become the second definition, or disappear entirely.

And when that happens, the TRAs will be standing around high-fiving at our erasure (at their hands).

It sucks to be in the class of ova-producing humans, whatever we are called now...

Ah yes, Pratchet, I said "Is x saying that sex is the same as gender"

Where x=He

You'd have to say she to get deleted surely

Yes I meant I said she

Thanks, flowers.

Language evolves.

When new meanings are attached to existing words, the meaning of that word changes.

It's happening already. It's commonplace. People have been having 'gender reveal' events for years. What they really mean is disclosing the sex of the baby.

Forms to fill out ask for gender instead of sex.

Gender is replacing the word sex and that would be ok except it's also changing the meaning of the word sex.

Maybe we just need a new word for biological sex.

There is no word now in trans world to describe 'adult human of the sex that produces motile gametes'. That's not evolution. That's deliberate manipulation and erasure.

Trans language hasn't quite fully developed yet though.

If transwomen are women, then calling transwomen transwomen is misgendering or transphobic (according to trans logic).

Following the same logic, if transmen are male and a transwoman is assigned male at birth does that mean that the transwoman is/was a transman.

They really need to get their own words to describe their various conditions, rather that trying to appropriate male and female into their new and developing vocabulary.

Meanwhile, there are female penises and male vaginas, female chests and male breasts, children who are being forced into boxes and adults without a clue on how to speak any more.

It's like some convoluted flow chart that goes round in circles and those that are saying, 'hey, come on it's really simple, we already have words for all those things and everyone knows what they mean' are being shut down, ostracised, verbally abused and even arrested!

If we had another word for our biological sex they would want that too.

Does anyone have a later edition that they could refer to?

Oxford Primary Dictionary 2011

Forgot the images

Oxford Primary Dictionary 2012

Oxford School Dictionary 1996

The definitely of "sex" is broadly the same, but the definition of gender has completely changed between 1996 - 2011

"Gender" is also a synonym for "sex" as you can see in the OED:

en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/gender

With example sentences like: ‘Additionally, there were no differences between genders in weekday or weekend physical activity.’

It is important to understand this when discussing trans issues because the term "gender identity" for example is a bit of a misnomer and the actual meaning is closer to "sex identity". Similarly, "gender dysphoria" is not a discomfort with gender roles and stereotypes, it is a discomfort with the sex you were assigned at birth.

Not substantially. The language is simplified for the target age group, but both words are still defined in such a way that relates them directly to each other. 3 out of the 4 definitions use male and female.