You need to read this article about the Leeds red light district.

[DJLippy]

I read this blog about the Leeds red light district from someone who lives there. It's so illuminating. This needs a wider audience - please share on social media. This is what decriminalisation looks like.

littlegirlblue.blog/2018/05/25/living-in-the-red-light-district/

Just another perspective on the whole subject, and I appreciate this will not sit well with many.
Firstly I have to say that it is not right for anyone female or male (yes there are males too!!) to be forced into selling themselves, or to find themselves in such a desperate situation that they feel they have no other choices.
Also it is not nice for anyone who lives in an area where the selling of sex is plied, if this has a detrimental impact on the ordinary residents.
With that in mind my understanding is the "safe zone" was created to try to keep this away from the residential areas.
The question for me is should there be any form of sex industry? I think personally it should be legalised and regulated, it will happen anyway. So why not make sure anyone who works in it does in a safe environment, where there are health checks, security, earnings/taxes declared etc. Instead of driving it underground.
There will always be men sometimes women (yes women) who pay for these services with both male and female sex workers on both sides.
But I am sure the reasons are varied!
Without a doubt there are many who will abuse and have little regard for the sex worker they are paying, and rightly these should be stamped out. Same applies to anyone who is forcing someone to sell themselves.
But what about those who work in this profession out of choice? Or what about the person who for whatever reason has no one and needs some companionship or physical contact, perhaps because they are shy/have low self esteem, are not attractive enough to the opposite sex and so on.
What about those stuck in a sexless relationship who just need some release, because they fundamentally love their partner and family life and only seek out sex workers because it is better than being constantly frustrated/breaking up the family or having a full on affair which results in more deceit.
What about those who work in the industry because it suits their lifestyle (I'm sure there are many).

I don't think is fair or constructive to refer to all these ladies as being wretched, though some will be. But if it was fully legalised, is it possible that maybe those who are, may be able to work in a safer environment and seek genuine help.
By the same token I think it unfair to refer to all men using sex workers as rapists. There are many reasons they may use a sex worker.

So back to my point!
Is the question whether there should be a legalised sex industry?Should it be stamped out, whether or not the people who work in the industry want it to be or not?
Are all men even those who have no one, no companionship, possibly with other issues which they find debilitating in their quest to find some form of normality rapists?

I’m kind of disgusted by what you have said. I will say again: no one WANTS to work in that industry. Do you? I don’t. Neither do they. That is why the only women (and no, in holbeck it is NEVER men) who are doing it are the most vulnerable and desperate women. As to people who don’t have sex: tough luck on them. I am single; I don’t have sex. That doesn’t give me the right to use an economic advantage (if I had one) to coerce someone into giving me sex, who doesn’t want to give it to me. I don’t care what the reason is and frankly, lumping disabled people in with these men is offensive. As to shy or unattractive to the opposite sex: get over it. Work on being shy, or make yourself more attractive, or don’t have sex. Sex is not food. Sex is not water. No one is under any obligation to service anyone sexually. I think what you have said is disgusting.

Every lefty dude bro needs to read this. Also what it's really like for women and girls in Germany.

No one has the right to engage is a sexual activity with another human being, it is not a right. You will not die if you don't have sex.

Pro brothel groups are just men's rights activists.

Most of my family live in Leeds with a few cousins living in Holbeck, they all have similar stories.

Legalising prostitution isn’t about helping the women it’s about reducing stigma for the disgusting men who think they are entitled to sex.

If someone doesn’t want to have sex but they feel they have no other choice because they need the money, at “best” it’s coercion and at worst rape.

fightthenewdrug.org/germanys-legalized-prostitution-industry-looks-like-a-real-life-horror-movie/

It's not legalised though is it - if sex wasn't involved, then the working conditions would be illegal - where are the risk assessments, the public liability insurance, the employers pension scheme? Where is the H&S around handling body fluids?

It's not legal. Yet again, it's sacrificing women to men.

Well said, Disturbingly

Alternate I feel that anyone who can come on a thread like this and attempt to derail it by defending the purchase of women's bodies is massively lacking in empathy. However if you really feel it is your calling in life to defend the indefensible, may I point you to the fact that there are many threads on here which discuss the Nordic model of criminalising punters and pimps while decriminalising the selling of sex. If you really want to bang your particular drum, go and bang it over there.

This is about Holbeck specifically, not about some imaginary Belle du Jour (and make no mistake - basing your view of prostitution on Belle du Jour leads to policies which lead directly to Holbeck - because the former is propaganda for a pump lobby who don't give a shit that the reality of decrim comes out looking like Holbeck.)

This "legalized" zone just moves around. Years ago chapletown, where I was approached for sex whilst pushing a baby in a pram. No joke.
Then I left the country for a while, when I came back the zone was down water lane. But water lane is deserted on a night and the women were being beaten up and i think one was murdered. So the obvious solution was to make the zone in a populated area. But no one asked the population if they wanted it.
I have said before that despite the "right on" vibes from areas like Adel, chapel allerton, etc, they would never have this in their area. So it's left to a poorer area because they won't do anything.
I would donate a lot to a crowd funder for this to stop.
I sadly have no idea what it would take, if I did I would start the fund.

Labour need to hang their heads in shame.

That's true Floof and the brothels are in all the poor areas. Like you when I lived in Leeds the unofficially tolerated street prostitution area was Chapeltown (which also had a massive gang, guns and drugs problem). I lived in LS6 and there was a brothel round the corner from me which the police turned a blind eye to.

celine that blog post is terrifyingly well written and rawly truthful

I totally agree with your follow up comments here and welcome to Mumsnet. You have (mainly) found your people here. I too have been a (long) life Labour supporter but no more.

dj thanks for linking it here and to the ignoramus who whined "well no one makes them live in Holborn" go and fucking educate yourself

It’s crazy that you can spot who the man is in this thread.

I don’t understand why people think a mans’ sexual wants come above the health and well-being of women stuck in shitty situations.

Ah, I've thought of someone who has good contacts with journalists Red Tory/Soylent Green on twitter - if someone could get her to retweet a link to this blog it would reach a lot of very influential people (Red Tory was on here for a while but I think doesn't post any more because she felt she was getting too stretched on social media.

This is confusing, Holbeck is starting to go through a period of huge regeneration as the city centre expands - it's quite 'up and coming' and has new trendy bars, museums etc. Opening all the time. So what happens to the 'safe zone' then - is it moved on somewhere else?

@Celinedayjardnz thank you for writting your report, lippy also for posting it here.

It stikes me as very sad that this year whilst the suffregets centenary was being 'celebrated' that women, half the population, are still living without a voice.

This area in Leeds looks to me like an experiment, one that may find itself in other areas at some point soon.

This disregard shown to women, poor women, I should say is insidious, toxic and will spread.

Alternate

Very few sex buyers are female, the overwhelming majority are male.

Very few sex sellers are there because it's something they want to do, the overwhelming majority don't.

So let's stop being silly and do what is best for the overwhelming majority of women working in the sex trade.

Let's do the right thing, for women and girls.

I used to live in the 'safe zone' and I couldn't tell you where it moved to after the area was gentrified. Its as if once it was no longer tolerated it just ceased to exist.
Its more like a dirty secret than a business model.

Re: Holbeck being up and coming- it depends what you mean by “Holbeck”. There is a part which they call Holbeck, which is close to the canal and city centre and has indeed seen investment, with internet start ups, microbreweries and organic cafes that none of us could afford and would not be welcome in. Then there is the really nasty crappy bit, the industrial estate/under the railway arches/bus depot bit, and this is the part the claim is the “managed zone”. Many, even men, will not walk through it even during the day, though I have without incident. However it is deserted, with no lighting, and lots of dark alleys and corners. That is where the women are “supposed” to “work”. I imagine they feel as unsafe there as the rest of us, and so they move into the next part, which is the bit that I mean when I say “Holbeck”, which is where we live, where the park and shops are. That part of Holbeck is NOT up and coming, although I am quite sure they mean that to happen once they have chased us all out. It is close to the city and that’s why they want it. But we need it for the same reason: I had work for a short time as an office cleaner, being so badly paid and the buses so bad I had to walk to and from work at 6 in the morning. How would I have been able to take even that very shit job if I had been living further out of town? We need to be close to the city centre to find work, and we cannot afford to commute. They want to extend the part they are making “trendy” and consume our area as well. The terraces could be pretty if maintained properly (which the council have not done). I have seen them do the same process in London, in Bermondsey and Tooting. Those “workers cottages”, once pretty with nice gardens and window boxes (and no crack and prossies) sell for good money to young professionals who work in the city. But we need them. This is our place. They are deliberately running it down, so they can get it cheap and make it the next “trendy” area.

Totally missed the point!

I had clearly stated that it is wrong for anyone to be forced or unfortunate enough to be in the position to sell themselves.

I merely stated that it is not always the case.

I agree it is mainly men, but some if only a few women do pay. Are these rapists/exploiters too?

Does anyone who works in the industry want to contribute.

And I disagree, there are many women that sell themselves in one way or another. I assume Presidents Trumps wife married him for his stunning looks and liberal views!

@OccamsRazor

It kind of is an experiment, a long experiment to be sure.
Although not called anything, back in the late 70s early 80s the zone was chapeltown. A blind eye was turned to the prostitution, black on black murder, gun crimes, harassment and drug use.
Leeds has always been Labour as far as I know, and there has always been somewhere for prostitution to carry on, along with other crimes.
It's as if Labour thinks if it's just kept in one place. And fuck the actual people who have to live with it.
It's also never been able to stay in one place, it has expanded because if you decriminalize it, it becomes more popular, people from other cities come cos they know they won't be caught.
Sorry it's kind of been my soapbox issue ever since I was approached for sex at the age of 22 whilst pushing my baby in A pram.
I was livid that day, and have been livid ever since.

Celinedayjardnz - we always get someone like Alternate on this type of thread, barging in, going what about the menz. It's so crass and infuriating but best ignored. I don't know what the answer generally because I agree with you that misogyny permeates all our institutions thanks to the sex pozzie idiots. Actually, I don't even know that it's misogyny. Perhaps it's just plain, old-fashioned classism. What else are working class women good for and why should we care about them?

Legalising prostitution isn’t about helping the women it’s about reducing stigma for the disgusting men who think they are entitled to sex.
^^ This.

His needs to go onto the main boards really. This affects everyone negatively, not just feminists.

I very much agree about classism. The misogyny comes in because women on the whole don’t want to pay crackheads for sex, and men do. I also think if the streets were lined with young men selling themselves, there would be more of an outcry. It’s both. Working class = no one cares. Woman = no one cares.