Matricentric feminism - the need for feminism to recognise the experience of mothers

[EmilyDickinson]

mommuseum.org/aint-i-a-feminist-matricentric-feminism-feminist-mamas-and-why-mothers-need-a-feminist-movementtheory-of-their-own/

There's an interesting article in the Guardian today (I'll link in a minute) that refers to this more detailed article.

My dad genuinely thought that he could be entirely absent from my childhood and then enjoy a relationship with me when he retired...

I’m not interested.

Ineedacupofteadesperately absolutely.

These men shaped holes don't suit men on a personal or emotional level.
They do suit men in pursuit of power or money.
Otherwise it is a hard slog.

My OH is in one of those professions where hours are long, unpredictable, he can't down tools at 5.30pm, he is expected to drop everything at a moments notice.

Totally incompatable with parenthood unless having another parent to take up the slack.

Which I did.

But his fathering has suffered as a result.

Having two of us in similar work roles ( and my job was equally demanding in terms of time and unpredictability) would mean our children hardly seeing either of us. We need a 25 hour working week for everyone.

As it turns out jacking in my career was one of the best possible decisions I made- my life has taken some amazing turns- I never did get back into that man shaped hole.

Tiny, I think you are talking about Sakura.

Yes Sakura. She was a different voice on the feminism threads and always very thoughtful.

Apparently all deeply unfeminist and a bad example.

It is refusing to examine the structural limitations that constrain our choices that is the unfeminist part.
Feminism is the political movement for the liberation of women. The fact that different women have different ideas about how to achieve that goal should neither surprise nor offend women. And yet it does seem to.

*It is refusing to examine the structural limitations that constrain our choices that is the unfeminist part.

Yes - so we are?

Yyy Offred

offred Everything you’ve written really resonates with me.
Motherhood is intrinsic to being a woman and intrinsic to being a human, the two shouldn’t be separate.
Sorry, not very articulate as very tired but wanted to say how meaningful and important i think the post is. Thanks OP

Argh... I get all uncomfortable about praise! But thank you all who have appreciated my posts!

I thought I'd achieved equality until I had a tiny, barely noticeable really, infant... It was a shock. Motherhood is when inequality kicks in. However, things can be done.

I came here to say that. I am in a men - dominated field, and felt that we were doing almost ok until I had a child. And then it hit.

And I agree things can be done with being considerate to the needs of both mothers and children. For example, paternity leave becoming the norm, organising society so new mothers are not being left in total isolation with only mindless babygroups to occupy them, and improved health care for women.

On the last topic, I am absolutely shocked by how little research backed information is on the topic of childbirth and post partum health. It is taken as "normal" that a huge fraction of women will go through half their lives mildly incontinent; simple questions like "how safe is it to attempt a breach birth at this particular hospital" are answered with "this is very hard to tell", and the amount of absolute total rubbish that HCPs regularly spurt out to women on the topic of pregnancy, birth, post partum care and breasfeeding is ASTOUNDING. I can't believe we have antviral drugs and can keep HIV under control 30 years after it appeared, but cannot stop women pissing themselves or having painful sex for the rest of their lives just because they chose to have a totally unnecessary luxury of having a baby.

Yy... I think about all that every time I see a Tena lady ad! FFS!!

I remember the old school radfems using. They were pretty much told that their struggle had been to get out of the home into the workforce and now that battle had been won it was time to talk about another, new issue. Which turned out to be sex work.

Never radfems supporting prostitution - it is still very much a radfem area of concern. Perhaps it was just confusing the way you wrote that? Or do you sincerely believe radfems ever thought that way?

Radical feminists have traditionally focused on male violence against women. That is because they know there are women being beat up and raped every week, or even every day.
I don't think mothering is intrinsically oppressive, but the way it is structured by patriarchy is.
i agree that because mothers are often the ones literally left holding the baby, then most want to do whatever they can to make their child happy and meet their needs.
I agree that it is astounding how much issues like incontinence are just accepted as normal. I also suspect that a substantial proportion of women with postnatal depression are actually depressed because of the physical situation they are in i.e. sleep deprived and doing nearly all of the work with a baby.

I don't think mothering is intrinsically oppressive, but the way it is structured by patriarchy is.

Correct. And the last 50-100 years particularly, where there is no wider (intergenerational) support network, it isolates mothers to basically cope on their own.

Offred
I’ve been folly eyed at feminist speakers who believe the answer to oppression is to entirely do away with motherhood and put all children in state nurseries from birth. I’ve been rolly eyed at the circular logic of individualist feminist circular logic of what matters is women choosing and everything’s women do is a choice.

It seems you are talking about liberal feminists, who only want to reform 'the system' a little here and there, and everything will be rosy. Radical feminists want to overhaul the entire damned system, which also means exploring different ways of doing things. Some matrilineal cultures more or less 'share motherhood' in groups, and not all who have given birth are involved necessarily (some women really are not cut out to be mothering types). The 'shared motherhood' usually has the older generation of women looking after the children as a group, and the younger women doing the more physical work. Dramatic cultural shift from the patriarchical west, where it is the ownership model. This other model is the 'community model', aka "it takes a village" and more about collaborative effort - with everything. I think this model has a lot of merit.

The state nurseries is common, lib fems, communists lots and lots of times I hear that one.

I don't think mothering is intrinsically oppressive, but the way it is structured by patriarchy is.

And the last 50-100 years particularly, where there is no wider (intergenerational) support network, it isolates mothers to basically cope on their own.

This other model is the 'community model', aka "it takes a village" and more about collaborative effort - with everything.

YY to all of this. Also, in matriarchal society, work itself would look different. The norm wouldn't be Monday-Friday, 9am-pm. And career progression wouldn't be linear by default.

I think ‘children are the mother’s job’ is incredibly damaging to society and a massive hurdle to get over.

It makes no logical sense. Every single person in society is inherently invested in every child’s quality of life. This is where individualism is at it’s most irrational IMO because it is actually impossible to pretend any person really is only concerned with themselves.

Offred but there is a biological fact.
Women breastfeed.

And the biological "morm" is to breastfeed for years, not months.
Combine that with several children then that effectively means that a woman is out of the workplace for years.
I breastfed for seven years.

Yes, I know I did touch on that upthread. However infant feeding is only one aspect of child rearing. Motherhood is not synonymous or interchangeable with breastfeeding, but breastfeeding remains an exclusively female experience and, with a tiny exception re wet nursing, an experience which is exclusively one of the mother.

When I had my children I had a deep urge to look after them myself while they were babies and I loved it.

Now I work ft and DP works from home and gets them ready for school, makes lunches, arranges appointment.

In Scandinavian countries where there are supportive policies in place - women are still opting to stay at home for a period with their children.

I was reading Patti Smith on Sunday. She was talking about how she stayed at home to look after her babies and was criticised fir that - yet that was one of her most creative periods and it was something she wanted to do.

I've never understood the "feminist" choice of paying someone poverty wages to look after young children to go and earn poverty wages
.

It’s a capitalist con posie! It’s the same reason the poorest women are the ones who don’t claim maintenance from the dad.

It’s ‘a matter of pride’... all a big con...

I think a lot of women feel a pull to care for their DC when they are small. I wonder how much of this is biology and how much culture. I wonder if men would feel it too if the culture changed. I know some men do and some women don’t.

The problem is with the expectation that women do because it’s a woman’s job to and that men don’t because it’s a woman’s job.

I think it is hugely common for men to have massive anxiety and cling tight to their gender role after a baby in an irrational manner. I wonder how much of that also happens with women.

I've never understood the "feminist" choice of paying someone poverty wages to look after young children to go and earn poverty wages

Or why the state requires that of single mothers, even of children of pre-school age, via Universal Credit.

Posie

I know what you mean about the poverty wages thing but I think it is hard for a lot of families to survive on one wage, and even if they can, some working mothers are thinking long-term financially.

If the mother goes back to work I think you receive more maternity pay. So overall you might be better off.

Another factor to consider is that you often need to keep your knowledge up to date and remind people you're still around. If you go back to work parttime then, with childcare costs, its not really financially beneficial as you say. But later on, if you have kept your career trundling along this allows you to focus on your career again when your kids go to college. You will be financially rewarded then so overall, longterm, it can make sense to work for peanuts sometimes.

On the other hand, if you are out of paid work for a decade or so it is extremely common to reenter the workplace at a lower grade. This is not right but it's what happens.

LaSqrrl Mon 28-May-18 00:39:38
I remember the old school radfems using. They were pretty much told that their struggle had been to get out of the home into the workforce and now that battle had been won it was time to talk about another, new issue. Which turned out to be sex work.

Never radfems supporting prostitution - it is still very much a radfem area of concern. Perhaps it was just confusing the way you wrote that? Or do you sincerely believe radfems ever thought that way?

Sorry, I wrote that fast and didn't realise it was unclear. The radfems were told that sex work was the new frontier, by libfems.
I didn't add 'by libfems' because every time I've done that I've been jumped on.