Matricentric feminism - the need for feminism to recognise the experience of mothers

[EmilyDickinson]

mommuseum.org/aint-i-a-feminist-matricentric-feminism-feminist-mamas-and-why-mothers-need-a-feminist-movementtheory-of-their-own/

There's an interesting article in the Guardian today (I'll link in a minute) that refers to this more detailed article.

As ever it depends on very personal definitions of what is ‘equitable’

E.g. some people believe it is equitable for one group of people to be privileged because that group deserves the privilege.

Obviously feminists and feminism are not perfect and of course it can steer into unfair and unjustified beliefs about men.

But if you look at what has actually been achieved by MRA it is, at the extreme end a number of misogynistic mass killings and shared care law which is diabolical for children’s rights in practice, harms women and promotes a ‘men’s rights’ approach to shared parenting...

It’s that along with what you say about the main membership that I worry about.

Also, I can see a place for advocacy for men re men’s issues and experiences.

I do hope that MRA becomes more like what you are saying you want it to be. I do think the way of doing that is perhaps maintaining it as advocacy for men but with regard to class analysis re sex. Many of the problems for men IMO are actually caused by the same sexism that oppressed women, which is why feminism would alleviate them as a consequence.

MRA tend to think of equity for men as women doing more things for men you see... not saying that is what you were asking...

I do know that some feminists actually just hate men, which is not feminism IMO.

That might sound like a handy get out clause!!! Ha ha! But I think re MRA, it is majority extremists with an entitlement problem such that this becomes representative of MRA.

I don’t think that is the case with feminism, especially because the dominant version these days is the lib fem variety.

I will actually completely agree with you I don’t agree with the shared care being the default. It should be what’s in the best interests of the children. I also genuinely worry that that isn’t what often plays out in the courts. I’ve seen fathers and mothers shafted by completely ridiculous decisions that often see children left in untenable and even dangerous situations.

Feminist organisation in the country point blank refused to engage if Fathers rights groups were invited to the consultation. I struggle to see how fatherhood is going to be advocated for robustly under such conditions.

Why won't those women meet with the abusive men who send them death threats every effing day? It is a great mystery that no one can solve.
I avoid MRAs as a matter of course, having been targeted by them in the past. I fully understand why women do not want to meet with their abusers, and why MRAs want the right to force women to meet with them.

Thank you thebewilderness for making my point for me.

Yes, that is why I’m sure bewilderness. I think it’s obvious really and just requires a small leap from realising that MRA is populated with ‘male supremacists, rape apologists and a number of unsavoury characters’.

However, I do think this; ‘all of whom I’m prepared to argue with, call out and argue with in fair and open debate’ would be a good thing to happen inside MRA.

What I’m not sure at all about is whether it will be effective or whether anyone else is even doing it and what I’d say to you from a feminist perspective is that it’s not right to expect the women’s groups to sit at the table while the movement is like the above. The problem is the movement is like the above rather than that the women’s groups wouldnt sit at the table.

If the MRA movement sorts out it’s problems I think you would find women’s groups are willing to work together re issues where it is helpful...

MRAs are antithetical to Feminism. They have no respect whatsoever for women's boundaries. Including coming to a Feminist forum to demand the attention of Feminists.

Sorry what boundary are you referring to? If there is something in the terms of service of this site that precludes men signing up that I missed? I’m happy to bounce if that’s the case. Or is my mere existence here an affront to your boundaries?

Might I suggest you exercise your right of freedom of association? I’m more than happy to disengage from your posts as I have neither the power nor the inclination to force you into interacting with me in any way shape or form.

I’m certainly not about to violate any of your boundaries.

MRAs advocating for more men's rights in a society where men's rights are already top of the agenda, and systemically centred and weaponised to subjugate women, is just what's needed to correct social injustice inequity and discrimination against women.

And coming on a feminist forum to advertise that is not invading boundaries? I agree to disagree.

The discussion about MRA is a good one to have, it's just such a shame that it's derailed a thread that was supposed to be about matricentric feminism!

I've really enjoyed all of your posts though, Offred. I agree with all that you say.

Derailing threads is what sealions and trolls practice over and over again

Haven't read the full thread but just wanted to thank @Offred for your post at 14:37. Encapsulates brilliantly so much of what I often muse about.

@Offred 👏🏻

I have long since stopped trying to defend my choices.

The workplace is anti women. Western society is patriarchal in structure the whole set up sucks.

I gave up work and career to be a SAHM. I breastfed for 7 years in total. I cared for my children without nursery or paid help.

Apparently all deeply unfeminist and a bad example.

I think an issue for me as an older woman is that this generation is the first to be almost guaranteed to have elderly parents with complex health needs, due to medical advances. My grandparents died in their 70s and early 80s.

My female colleagues at work frequently have demanding teenagers (this generation expect/need ongoing financial and emotional support while at University) and needy parents. One colleague won't retire as she knows it will condemn her to full time care for her parent, at least with a full time job she can keep some 'her' time.

Just as parenting seems to fall mainly to women, so does elderly care - often when women have just managed to claw back some sort of (albeit) diminished career. I cannot see a way forward as this will only get worse as more people live longer (and then develop dementia).

TheNavigator yes- I am a carer for my elderly mother and I have older teen/university children.

It falls to me as my OHs parents are dead.

Years ago there was a lovely feminist poster who argued very eloquently about the power of women as mothers.

Her view was they women should be careful
Not to concede this power to men, that it should be resisted and celebrated.

Icsnt rememner her name - she was Japanese I think. Some of the other posters might remember her.

tiny- I don't know of that woman but I agree with the sentiments.

If in our struggle for equality we are simply squeezing ourselves into man shaped holes then it is no equality at all.

If in our struggle for equality we are simply squeezing ourselves into man shaped holes then it is no equality at all.

That is one of the arguments I remember the old school radfems using. They were pretty much told that their struggle had been to get out of the home into the workforce and now that battle had been won it was time to talk about another, new issue. Which turned out to be sex work.

I think TBH that ‘giving up the power of motherhood’ is often an issue with women.

I do wonder if women had power in any other arena whether this would be quite such an issue.

We all have our own personal views about motherhood. For me I never wanted children and I certainly never wanted to be forced into the role of ‘mother’. This does affect my views on the whole thing.

I think lib fem has kind of toxified choice by making it all choosey choice and every choice is a choice and therefore ‘yay women!’ but choice is at the heart of this really, just it’s actually across the board for women lack of choice.

The very luckiest of women will have been able to make the choice they would want because both their economic status allowed it AND their male partners actually supported it.

This is really, really wrong. That even the very most fortunate still need their male partner to decide to support their choice. This doesn’t work the other way round really, men by and large are free to perform their gendered role as provider or not based entirely on their choices.

Obviously with the exception of single fathers when women absent themselves...

I know a woman who tells the story that her ex-husband had to attend a job interview on one of the days he had their baby. He couldn't find anyone to look after the baby, so took it with him to the interview. He got the job, with everyone congratulating him on what a wonderful father he was going to be. Can you imagine that happening to a woman? Taking her baby to a job interview being a positive tick in the recruitment process?

Ha ha! No! It would not happen!

If in our struggle for equality we are simply squeezing ourselves into man shaped holes then it is no equality at all.

This. I think this shows itself most starkly when it comes to breastfeeding. It's pretty impossible to have a normal breastfeeding relationship with your baby and work.

And I don't think that the way society is set up particularly benefits normal men either (working increasingly long hours on increasingly insecure contracts), only the ones who are in charge pulling the strings.

I think men benefit from the power dynamic but ultimately they still have to perform a role.

A man’s role is higher status, provides a man with more security but the cost is a relationship with his children and often with his wife/partner now too.

I do know that lots of men, my father is one, dont realise that giving in to ‘the anxiety to provide’ when a DC is born has the natural consequences of children not having a relationship with them and wives leaving them. Men by and large also don’t realise that the consequence of being socialised into thinking that it’s women that have to think about responsibility and consequences means that they won’t find out the consequences are shitty until the thing happens.

I think TBH that ‘giving up the power of motherhood’ is often an issue with women.I do wonder if women had power in any other arena whether this would be quite such an issue.

Agree entirely, and with the rest of your post Offred. I desperately wanted children, and struggled with infertility, but I have been surprised by the way it has constrained and limited my choices - yes to what you say about lack of choice.