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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans Student Faces Expulsion from Univeristy of Bristol

101 replies

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 25/05/2018 21:26

www.crowdjustice.com/case/trans-student-faces-expulsion-uob/

Does anyone have the info from the University's side?

I am facing disciplinary board at the University of Bristol for writing an open letter asking the University to take a stand against the infamously transphobic group, "A Woman's Place".

The University claim that the open letter contained, "false information", that I have attempted to "suppress fellow students' freedom of speech", and by trying to address hatred towards trans people, and particularly trans women, I have, "brought the University into disrepute"

Expulsion seems a bit excessive?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
Offred · 30/05/2018 17:33

Her letter makes no sense, claiming that TERFs are heterosexual feminists.

She also says that she is happy to share her spaces with transwomen and men, which I've never heard anyone say before. (Or did she mean transwomen and transmen?)

No, she means men. This is the POMO identity bollocks hyper individualistic shite otherwise known as ‘liberal feminism’; ‘people are entirely categorised by one view expressed one time’ ‘there are bad views and good views and people with bad views are bad people and should be banned’ ‘Disagreement is literal violence’ ‘I feel therefore you are’ ‘I am responsible for myself but you are responsible for everything I say you are’

Offred · 30/05/2018 17:36

Oh and also ‘the only way to achieve equality is by categorising everyone re where they fall in the oppression heirarchy’ and ‘lived experience is the only thing that counts for any purposes’

Offred · 30/05/2018 17:42

What she means is ‘if you don’t let men in your toilets you are a misandrist’

This is different to ‘if you don’t let transwomen in your toilets you are transphobic and literally erasing trans identity’

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 30/05/2018 17:44

Sally Hines has used 'yourself' instead of 'you'. I mean I don't want to be the pedantry police but if your letter is about how fucking academically brilliant you are you should really proof it/understand basic grammar/be able to write.

R0wantrees · 30/05/2018 17:58

I first saw the academic Nick Matt on the debate:

I wonder how widely his position is agreed with.

Trans Student Faces Expulsion from Univeristy of Bristol
Trans Student Faces Expulsion from Univeristy of Bristol
Ereshkigal · 30/05/2018 18:25

Her letter makes no sense, claiming that TERFs are heterosexual feminists. Everyone knows the group most affected by transactivism are lesbians, and many prominent critics of transactivism are lesbians like Linda Bellos & Anne Ruzylo (who were featured as speakers by WPUK) & Julia Long & Sheila Jeffreys.

She's either slyly disingenuous or she doesn't have a clue what she's wading in on. The prevailing ideology in trans/gender identity circles is objectively homophobic.

Ereshkigal · 30/05/2018 18:29

This is the POMO identity bollocks hyper individualistic shite otherwise known as ‘liberal feminism"

Agree entirely with your assessment of it Offred. The valid concept of liberal feminism i.e working within the laws and societal structures to achieve equality, and the valid and useful concept of intersectionality have been traduced by some of the stupidest least informed people I've ever encountered.

Ereshkigal · 30/05/2018 18:33

"You literally aren't a feminist if you don't think trans women are women!!!!"

okay I'll book myself in for that lobotomy shall I?

"Feminism is about Equality for all genders!!!"

R0wantrees · 30/05/2018 19:37

I read some of the Pomo discussions at the time of NUS Trans18 'toilet occupation'. Quite a lot of accusations about trans men's transmisogyny and calls to exclude them from 'women's' spaces by trans women....

There may be some links in the thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3237230-NUS-Conference-breaks-down-after-the-UK-Border-Force-Arrive

TBH I decided I'd rather have another go at reading 'Finnegans Wake'

HerFemaleness · 30/05/2018 19:42

lol, lib fems are so funny.

I like Karen's ''it's anti-feminist to classify people according to bodies''. Well, if that's the case who the fuck are you working on behalf of to erase poverty, and tackle rape and campaign for bodily autonomy? Who are these people you're calling women? What is it about them that makes them at extra risk of poverty, rape and being denied bodily autonomy. Clearly nothing to do with having a certain of body.

TerfsUp · 30/05/2018 21:08

"You literally aren't a feminist if you don't think trans women are women!!!!"

The two negative cancel each other out. Therefore, "[y]ou literally are a feminist if you think transwomen are women".

Ummmm, no.

Ereshkigal · 30/05/2018 21:41

I should have chucked a couple more "literally"s in to be authentic.

TerfsUp · 30/05/2018 22:07

I literally agree with you, Ereshkigal!

TerfsUp · 30/05/2018 22:13

Oh - and because I sometimes become a bit dogged in tracking down information, I looked on Google for some of the "academics" who signed the letter.* Some of the signatories had no academic affiliations whilst a great many were PhD / MSc students. A fair number of the signatories were associated with LGBTQ organisations. A good handful were associated with Leeds University. Some have a profile so low that they did not appear in the first few pages of Google, even when I used :ac.uk.

*I concentrated on those who had (independent scholar) after their names or whose names intrigued me. (I have autism and I am fascinated by unusual names.)

Ereshkigal · 30/05/2018 22:22

Terfs Grin I literally am!

Ereshkigal · 30/05/2018 22:23

Very interesting.

R0wantrees · 30/05/2018 22:30

TerfsUp
Someone else with your interest doing the same:
twitter.com/robjessel/status/1001137934546980865

TerfsUp · 30/05/2018 22:44

Great minds think alike, R0wantrees! Grin

Lemonjello · 30/05/2018 22:52

I’m an academic and there’s not a chance in hell that I would sign something like this (and put my professional reputation behind it) unless I was absolutely sure of all the facts.

I’m pretty gobsmacked that other ‘academics’ have done so, and it doesn’t surprise me inthe least that many of their credentials are...questionable.

HerFemaleness · 30/05/2018 22:56

Some of the signatories had no academic affiliations whilst a great many were PhD / MSc students.

I think what you mean is, some of the signatories were self identified academics. Wink

TerfsUp · 31/05/2018 08:01

Hah, HerFemaleness!

Lemonjello, I am a former academic (now working in the private sector) and agree with your comment.

Lemonjello · 31/05/2018 08:38

From the Bristol post piece linked earlier

A university spokesperson said it “strongly defends the right of students to protest” and no penalty has been imposed on Nic at this time.

“Concerns have been raised with us about the actions of one of our students in relation to their protesting of a talk by A Woman’s Place,” the spokesperson said.

And also...

“The university has a duty to investigate such complaints and secure free speech in the institution within the law. We have therefore initiated Student Disciplinary Regulations proceedings relating to the form of this student’s protest.

Before I signed the letter I would make very sure I knew exactly what these “actions” were and exactly what “form” they took. And every academic surely understands that universities have complaints procedures which must be followed if a complaint is raised formally. Even if it is not subsequently upheld. Confused

I wonder if some of these academics were sent the letter to sign by their students and found it hard to say ‘no’.

R0wantrees · 07/06/2018 23:25

'Open letter: Freedom of speech at the University of Bristol
University professors oppose the slanderous allegations against A Woman’s Place UK and support upholding the principles of freedom of speech and assembly in relation to the right of A Woman’s Place UK to hold meetings without participants being intimidated.'

Letter starts:
We are a group of academics who are very concerned about the misrepresentations contained in the recent open letter to you about the disciplinary proceedings which have been initiated by the University of Bristol against one of your students, Nic Shall. The letter misrepresents both the nature of these proceedings, and the nature of the group, A Woman’s Place UK.

We do not think it appropriate for us to comment on the potential outcome of disciplinary proceedings, but we think it is important to correct the impression given in the previous open letter that this student is facing disciplinary proceedings merely for writing a petition. In fact, one of the allegations to which these proceedings relate is that the student concerned intimidated another student because she chaired a meeting held by A Woman’s Place UK.

The letter describes A Woman’s Place UK as “discriminatory,” and as an “anti-trans campaign group.” It states that it is not “false information” to say that A Woman’s Place UK “provides a platform for hate speech.” It also states that the group was set up to campaign against trans rights “as enshrined in legislation such as the Gender Recognition Act 2004 and the Equality Act 2010.” All these statements completely misrepresent the nature of A Woman’s Place UK, and what it seeks to do.(continues)

www.feministcurrent.com/2018/06/07/open-letter-freedom-speech-university-bristol/

Signatories:
Dr Katie Alcock, Senior Lecturer in Psychology, Lancaster University

Dr Sophie Allen, Lecturer in Philosophy, Keele University

Dr Michael Biggs, Associate Professor of Sociology, University of Oxford

Dr Heather Brunskell-Evans, Senior Research Fellow, King’s College London

John Collins, Professor of Philosophy, University of East Anglia

Debbie Epstein, Professor of Cultural Studies in Education, Roehampton University

John Gardner, Professor of Law and Philosophy, University of Oxford

Dr Mary Leng, Senior Lecturer in Philosophy, University of York

Dr Susan Matthews, Honorary Senior Research Fellow, Department of English and Creative Writing, University of Roehampton

Professor Michele Moore, Nuffield Department of Surgical Services, University of Oxford

Maureen O’Hara, Senior Lecturer in Law, Coventry University

Kathleen Richardson, Professor of Ethics and Culture of Robots and AI, De Montfort University

Dr Komarine Romdenh-Romluc, Senior Lecturer in Philosophy, University of Sheffield

Dr Kathleen Stock, Reader in Philosophy, University of Sussex

Dr Jo Waugh, Senior Lecturer in English Literature, York St John University

www.feministcurrent.com/2018/06/07/open-letter-freedom-speech-university-bristol/

As the letter says, Its very important to be mindful that this is an ongoing disciplinary matter

Terfulike · 08/06/2018 01:01

Thanks for posting that important letter Rowan, and I'm so grateful to the signed academics who put their name to it.

Off to watch this fascinating video now.

Italiangreyhound · 08/06/2018 01:26

Rose of Dawn is brilliant. Thanks