Is this really a feminist board?

[GaspingShark]

I am a crap feminist. I haven't read a single book on the subject. Not De Beauvoir, not Greer, not Butler. The reasons for that are to do with a disability that I'd rather not go into, but I am a woman with a brain, and the Republic of Ireland is having a referendum on repealing the 8th this week. There it is, look, thirty threads down. And this "Feminism and Women's Rights" board's primary concern seems to be "What it will really take the peak trans the world?"

So I'm asking you, because I genuinely, honestly, cross my heart and hope to die, believe you are all better read and/or have more experience and/or more knowledge of being a woman than I do.

Doesn't that bother you? Doesn't it bother you that, four days away from the repeal vote, there's one thread on that in the bottom third of a fifty-thread page, and two or three dozen trans-related threads covering everything from Amnesty International to Jordan Peterson to exactly what Munroe Bergdorf told Venice Allan? Does it give you any pause for thought?

Maybe I should start a separate thread on that. What would the question be?

The problem is that its adherents also identify as good and virtuous and marginalised and these things are more associated with the left wing than the right wing. Ergo, they all identify as left wing with enemies who must therefore be right wing. And since identification is all that matters, their identification trumps the actual principles of political theory.

YY it's a very childish view of the world.

The old ‘you’re being exclusionary’ is such an obviously authoritarian, distraction and diversion tactic.
Why would anyone feel entitled to co-opt women’s time and energy from talking about stuff that affects them? Might it be more about wanting to stop women from saying stuff that they don’t think women should think?

"I am a crap feminist. I haven't read a single book" is probably what most women feel like when they come here for the first time. They are the target audience for this site, not simply 'the faithful'

This site is really impressive at what it does. It has an abilty to be whatever space it needs to be depending on each visitor, manages to retain an identity and a purpose, and it does this by being self-organising. There is no 'mumsnet vision', it is all the result of the calibre of its members and a commitment to serving others.

Anyone coming here with an open mind can see that.

TL/DR - ur fab

Here’s a question: how can we move away from identity politics? Is it even possible in today’s climate? What would it take?

Maybe I should start a separate thread on that. What would the question be?

It would be a good thread if people were interested enough in rarefied theory and that question would suffice!

The DH thinks that the financial collapse of 2008 was the beginning of the transition period during which the US is replaced by China as dominant power and the various convulsions - Trump, Brexit, the rise of identity, etc - are just symptoms of it.

He may well be right. But if he is, we need to be thinking about what we might look like afterwards. And a society based on individual identity doesn't look promising to me - it will just benefit all the privileged groups at the expense of everyone else because the privileged groups will be able to impose their identities and the marginalised groups won't. (NB: I don't see white, upper and middle class males who like to present feminine as in the least bit marginalised.)

That thread sounds excellent. I'd be really interested in posting on it. Social media and the internet too, I think has a huge role.

rosy:
"500 radfems worldwide"? Hope there's more than that or we've had it!

I am not shitting with that. There are of course, the 'up and coming' proto-radfems not included in that estimate.

The 'becoming radfem' moment is when all the pennies drop. What the entire system is, how it works, how to recognise it.

And no, it is not some kind of 'exclusive club' as some make out, it is about a way of seeing how all the various systems of the world affect the female-born (that is the focus btw). It is not enough to just be GC, or even anti-porn or anti-prostitution - plenty of those semi-radfems floating about. It is about opening your eyes, and actually SEEING, all of it.

Of course, once seen, cannot be unseen. At that point, yes, a fully-fledged radfem. And no turning back, not ever.

Can I just point out that abortion is still illegal on the Isle of Man too, but their new bill is finally going to be read by the Legislative Council today and will hopefully be passed into law later this year. It hasn't been mentioned on this board.

I am not too worried about that because I think erasure of women's rights is REALLY BLOODY IMPORTANT! And the more exposure it has, the better! If the GRA amendments are passed in the UK, a lot of other countries will follow suit, we must not forget we still have quite a lot of influence on the world stage. I very much feel we are protesting this issue on behalf of all women, because it really will affect each one to some degree.

There are times when I truly feel sorry for transgender people. It is most definitely mental illness for some. I recently watched a video of a young transwoman who post op, referred to the bleeding from the constructed vagina as "menstruating". She was deadly serious!

The DH thinks that the financial collapse of 2008 was the beginning of the transition period during which the US is replaced by China as dominant power and the various convulsions - Trump, Brexit, the rise of identity, etc - are just symptoms of it.

He is perhaps right. All we know for sure is that a massive shift is taking place, and the US themselves have fucked up on their world domination thing.

As I now live down under, the China influence is much stronger here than in the UK.

Just added a thread in FWR. Don’t want to derail this one but it’s an issue I’d like to get people's thoughts on.

If we're suggesting threads I just posted on the tshirt thread that maybe we need a group discussion about the tendency for some women to identify the thing blocking women's progress as being other women not getting with the program/letting the side down rather than men/the system actively blocking women's progress. It comes up in a lot of different contexts, that idea that the real problem is women not doing activism/life perfectly, and I think it would be an interesting topic to thrash out, but can't think how to frame it in terms of starting a thread. Someone who's better at titles than me could have a go?

rosy
Why the jump? From abortion rights to trans rights. Your 'connections' there seem somewhat telling really.

'Transwomen' can NEVER be impregnated against their wills. Never. And that my friend, is the key difference between women and 'transwomen'.

LaSqrrl, you've lost me there? I was simply pointing out the mental illness side of it for which I can sympathise.

"Then, every so often, people can't hide their feelings and become vicious about post operative transwomen Have never seen anyone becoming "vicious" apart from tra's, so here's another "vociferous denial" of transphobia."

Posts here are written in sand, not carved in stone. Just don't ask the "wrong questions" or say the "wrong thing", otherwise an entire Topic can disappear one morning. One "wrecking-ball" can bring down the most worthy conversation, and it sucks when that happens. But never mind: burning books never stopped people having ideas.

I will give it a go, AAK

There are also many many women who aren't radfems and don't consider themselves feminist, who see this misogynistic male power grab for exactly what it is.

There are also a lot of women who don't know what radical feminist means- a lot of people think it means "very feminist".

There are also many many women who aren't radfems and don't consider themselves feminist, who see this misogynistic male power grab for exactly what it is.

Yes, I agree with that Eresh.

I don't have a problem with 'single issue' feminists exactly, just when they undermine many of the other areas going on. On the plus side though, many coming in from single issue, 'accidentally' pick up on the other areas of feminism. TRAs has been a huge recruiting drive for us at the mo. :)

I don't regard myself as a radfem since I prioritise social class over sex in my politics. I am in agreement with the radfem analysis of gender and have a class analysis of everything, so I see myself as radfem adjacent.

I always considered myself feminist, but did not know of rad fem, lib fem definitions until I started reading the FWR boards, having come here via the trans threads. I certainly agree with the Sex work side of rad fem thought, the trans stuff obv, but not so much the Marxist stuff, which generally leaves me cold. But I have certainly had an education by rad fems for which I am very appreciative.

Most of the Lib fem positions gives me the rage though.

Op is bang on.

LaSqrrl, can you explain to me what you meant in your post 08.47 please?

You switched subjects in a non sequitur way. It seemed an illogical jump from one topic to another.

So first people whinged and said trans threads should go in FWR. Now most of them are in FWR, the problem is that they are in FWR. So basically, the issue is that people are still talking about it despite being told not to? Yeah, got it.

Personally I see this self-ID thing as the biggest threat to womens rights there has ever been. It has the potential to take us back a hundred years. I know some others don't agree, and thats fine. But I don't get what the issue is with those of us who are concerned, discussing those concerns.

I also find it odd that those saying there is not enough posts about repeal the 8th..have not even posted about it themselves.