It never happens. Yet it happened.

[LaSqrrl]

Transwomen, we are told, are a harmless bunch. No harm to anyone, most oppressed on the planet.

Yet...

"Bashing to death" (a male), yes, seems a totally female crime and all.

Seriously, Jade is doing it wrong. We mere females generally need to use a weapon to level the playing field.

Really don't want you in our spaces Jade, if you can bash a male to death.

I'm going to do the dangerous thing of stepping away from statistics and venture into anecdotes. Keep that context in mind.

In real life I have properly known (as in recurring socialisation with) four MtF trans people. Of that four, three were highly self-sexualising and their female identity was heavily tied up with their sex life. There were explicit fetish bases for their cross-dressing and female identity. The fourth was a painfully shy and timid person that I knew threw work. He was physically a delicate-looking person and very softly spoken. Later on, he came out as trans and adopted a female identity.

Of these four, the last one has never, to my knowledge, said boo to a mouse and I think (and hope) that he's happier now in his new identity.

Of the three remaining, one has served prison time for beating up a man who was going out with the girl he was having an affair with and is what I would generally describe as a "fucked up individual." The second has criminal convictions and though I don't know the details I know he has separately assaulted people. The third has never directly assaulted anyone as far as I know but is a very duplicitous individual who has lied maliciously on multiple occasions for a variety of unpleasant and manipulative reasons.

This reinforces, to me, the need to highlight the separation between actual gender dysphoria sufferers and the Autogynephiles. The latter need not be harmful to others, but seems to often reach degrees of expression where it is.

AGP is the elephant in the room in every conversation about trans issues. Mention the elephant and someone will be along to call you a bigot and try to get your comment deleted shortly. As the rules of misogyny say, basic pattern recognition skills are evil when they inconvenience men.

AGP is the elephant in the room in every conversation about trans issues. Mention the elephant and someone will be along to call you a bigot and try to get your comment deleted shortly

It's not just AGP these days (as I have said before) it's a bunch of mainly younger anarchist/Antifa oriented and/or simple misogynist little pricks who are jumping on this bandwagon because they hate women. These are the ones who use slurs like 'truscum' and I suspect the ones at protests (when they are not sending their handmaidens). I think they are just as dangerous because they are often the ones telling children and young people that it is the evil state apparatus that is keeping their hormones and surgery from them...

Will she be sent to a male or female prison if found guilty? Genuine question.

Antifa in general are a problem that society is going to have to grapple with at some point. It's a culture that actively encourages violence on multiple fronts.

Slightly off-topic :
I thought the start of that news report sounded very "cosy" as if trying to minimise what was about to be said.
Is that a normal way for an Australian news report of a murder to begin?
Would it begin that way if they were talking about the sportsman's brother?

Antifascists seem to be precisely the type of people who are first to embrace fascism with open arms...

"The transgender sister of a NRL star has faced court accused of bashing her boyfriend to death in Sydney on the weekend."

Is that what you were talking about Mxyzptlk?

No, it is only usual when the perpetrator is male. That other elephant in the room, how murder is reported in the papers. If a female perp, she is 'an evil witch who should be burned at the stake', but if a male perp 'he was such a nice guy, how did it happen, what did the victim do to set him off'. The minimalisation is fairly notable, you almost have to read it twice to see it is a homicide, not a 'bashing'.

That is because, everyone knows what a TW is, and it is not TWAW. Rather, TWAM.

That there is no evidence to suggest that male pattern offending rates decrease post transition is one of the most important objections to self-ID. How can we not discuss it?

Actually there is. transadvocate.com/fact-check-study-shows-transition-makes-trans-people-suicidal_n_15483.htm. According to the author of the "Swedish" study if the cohort is divided into groups - one who transitioned between 1973 and 1988 and the other who transitioned between 1988 and 2003, then for the latter group they did not find male pattern criminality.

'transadvocate'? Oh so totes non-biased at all!
2003? Nothing for the last 15 years?

Ok, just dropping Dana Rivers right here. And I have a specific bookmark called 'trans crims' - it is chock-o-block full. But sure, we can go ahead and pretend it never happens. Because trans and their supporters tell us so. I have done linkdumps on this before. But I know there are entire sites that list all the male pattern violence of TW. (someone could help me out, I cannot remember the names of the sites)

Half of all transgender prisoners in the UK are sex offenders or dangerous category A inmates.

This is not a peer reviewed piece of research. It is a flawed piece of research conducted and published by an anti-trans website. The research is flawed as the only organisation that has statistics on the percentage of transgender prisoners who are sex offenders is the MOJ and they have not released this information.

Further, the statistic is meaningless. If only one transgender person has ever committed a crime and that offence was a sex offence, then 100% of transgender prisoners would have committed sex offences. However, the probability that a given transgender person would be a sex offender is de minimis.

'transadvocate'? Oh so totes non-biased at all!

Not sure of your argument here. Do you believe Transadvocate have misquoted Dr. Cecilia Dhejne? Or do you believe that Dr. Cecilia Dhejne does not know the data she used in her own study?

It is relevant Sarah in that if 5% of prisoners are Cat A yet 100% of trans prisoners are it shows that the trans prison population is more of a risk than the prison population in general and risk assessments should take account of this.
It doesn't tell us much helpful about the trans population in general.

AGP is the elephant in the room in every conversation about trans issues

Not clear what you mean by AGP here.

If you mean people with transvestic fetishism, then they don't identify as women so are irrelevant to the debate.

If you mean Blanchard's classification, well Blanchard was trying to explain the aetiology of transsexuals, not the motivation to transition. He viewed AGPs and HST as both genuine transsexuals. However, Blanchard's theories are fringe, not accepted by the vast majority of his profession.

Is it just me or is it the case that on these threads lately there has been this thing where one TRA comes on and then flounces and then another appears?

Maybe there are shifts.

I was thinking of a relay ...

We've done the Swedish study so many times now that it seems rather pointless to bring it up again. We all know it's been propagandised. And we all know that it doesn't include the AGP/ladypenis cohort, who are the people feminists are most concerned about.

You're going to have to come up with a new line, Sarah Ar. That one's been done to death already.

Maybe there are shifts.

Also Groundhog Day. Every day.

I see we've had a case of statistics break out in this thread. I don't think we can draw conclusions from anything unless we have much more solid data than (I believe) we have. Unless we have good figures on the number of trans people out there and broken down into age categories, there's little we can say for definite based on incarceration rates. Even if you do have incarceration rates for trans people, you'd still need to view it by age because age is one of the strongest predictors for sexual and violent offences. As the number of trans people is rising rapidly, that's going to have a marked effect if you are comparing to the male or female populations in general.

Someone mentioned you can read something into the % of trans prisoners that are cat A. Do we actually have such figures but even if we did without knowing distributions I'm not sure what you could tell.

The probable scenario, imo, is that the one sub-group of trans people is especially violent and the rest either no more than anyone else or less. Not differentiating between these groups is worse than unhelpful. It actively confuses things.

Not differentiating between these groups is worse than unhelpful. It actively confuses things.

Quite. There is a good body of historical research on paraphilias and sex offending but now we have to pretend it's irrelevant because distinct populations have been lumped in together.

In any case, under a self-ID regime, how do you balance privacy and data collection? How will such data ever become available if it's illegal to isolate it?

If you mean people with transvestic fetishism, then they don't identify as women so are irrelevant to the debate.

Lol

You are funny. Do you do events?

Let's have the evidence that this subset of males as a class are less of a risk to women then any other male. TRAs are the ones making this claim. I see no reason to believe it. They need to prove it, not anyone else.

@OldHag1
Will she be sent to a male or female prison if found guilty? Genuine question.

I will look into it. However, the charging is likely to be (as per the AVO taken out) in the male name (which would be the current legal name situation). It really isn't too hard to legally change one's name in Australia, so is Walker too special to do so, after several years of lady living?

Copying this bit across, because MSN have a habit of dead/lost links

At her family home in Botany, in Sydney's south, family friends said her mum was too distressed to talk about her daughter's alleged violent relationship with Mr Caetano.

'She doesn't want to comment, there might come a time when she does but she is still trying to come to terms with it now,' a family friend said.

Police have also taken an AVO out against Ms Walker - under her given name Brodie Walker - on behalf of Mr Caetano's mother Cristina.

It is understood Mrs Caetano was home at the time of the alledged (sic) attack.

While Ms Walker remains in custody until she faces court next week, friends posted messages of support on her social media accounts.

'Try keep ya head up boo luv ya', one friend wrote.

Ms Walker, who transitioned to a female several years ago, has regularly posted on social media about how proud she is to be transgender.

'#transgender #transisbeautiful,' she posted to her Instagram account.

Mr Caetano is understood to have been celebrating his father's 80th birthday on Saturday night, just hours before his death.

Under the standard terms of the AVO, Ms Walker can not go within 500 metres of the Brighton-Le-Sands address where Mr Caetano died.

It is a flawed piece of research conducted and published by an anti-trans website.

Judge for yourself - the estimate was based on the publicly available prison monitoring board reports. This exercise- which you can spot check or replicate if you like - suggested 113 trans inmates and around half of these were sex offenders or Cat A prisoners.
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/fairplayforwomen.com/transgender-prisoners/amp/

The research is flawed as the only organisation that has statistics on the percentage of transgender prisoners who are sex offenders is the MOJ and they have not released this information.

This is from the Times a couple of weeks after this "flawed" study was published:
The number of transgender prisoners in English and Welsh jails has risen almost 80% in a year, official figures published by the Ministry of Justice revealed last week. They show the transgender prisoner population has increased from 70 in March-April 2016 to 125 by the same time this year.

The figure is likely to understate the true number of transgender inmates because it does not include offenders who have been through the two-year process to gain a gender recognition certificate (GRC),

The figures are not broken down by offence but James Barrett, a consultant at Charing Cross Hospital who is president of the British Association of Gender Identity Specialists, said he had been told by the Prison Service that “about half” of transgender prisoners were sex offenders.

So imperfect data, but there we go.