Why do men think they can get away with this!!!!

[stripesandspots10]

I'm so angry. Why do men believe they can spike women's drinks with extra alcohol to get them very drunk just because they want to take advantage of them. I've had this happen to me twice and it happened to my sister last night. All being men we knew and men we thought were friends.
They obviously only thought they had some kind of chance with us if they were to ply us with extra alcohol.
The first time this happened to me I noticed as I weren't really tipsy so I left the drinks. Second time I had already had a few drinks so did not notice that the guy had started buying doubles. My sister last night asked for a single and told my DM this morning she has a feeling they might have been doubles. Then he tried it on with her and because she rejected him, he is saying it was both of them. Argh what makes them think this is acceptable behaviour!

I am gobsmacked at how common men spike with drugs/alcohol. And yes the reason probably is because alot of them get away with! They want to get us incapable of remembering so they can do as they please. It boils my blood!

The second time this happened to me we were at a flat with friends. Me and a guy who I thought was a friend was sharing the same spirit. So when he made his drink he offered to make mine. What a fool I was. He was clearly putting alot in as I got quiet drunk. I remember up to a point and I suspect he might have drugged my drink as I have no recollection from then until I wake on my sofa with him beside me. We were both fully clothed and seemed untouched so I'm certain nothing happened but I just couldn't believe it! This was the guy that I later filed a harressment claim against!

And we are supposed to trust that men with ill intentions won't self ID as women? We can't even trust the men we are acquainted with not to try it on with us.

I was once out on a work outing and there were 10 women of varying ages. 8 of them had been raped or sexually assaulted. Not by strangers, not by a bogeyman down an alley (which women dare walk down alleys these days) but by friends of the family, dates, brothers friends and even boyfriends brothers. Is it any wonder we get jumpy when men invade our spaces? Or the thought of men being able to legitimately invade our spaces.

I think you mean some men.

Yea Vicky not all men but a big portion of them

So when he made his drink he offered to make mine. What a fool I was. He was clearly putting alot in as I got quiet drunk.

I think one thing we have to be careful of is, in general, we can't hold as much alcohol as men, so if drinks are being topped up at the same time, it's going to affect us more.
Not saying this guy didn't spike you, but is there a chance you were just going "drink for drink" and being affected more?

Iput: However I was with a very good friend who noticed I wasn't right and he took me home immediately.

yeah, but evening trusting 'a friend' (male) to do this is risky. I was not even drunk one night, just barely tipsy. He insisted on 'walking me home for my safety' and raped me when we got there. Not a 'misunderstanding' either - I told him to fuck off and never wanted to see him again. He never contacted me after that. He knew it was rape.

I think you mean some men.
By 'some', I gather you mean a significant portion of them. Otherwise, those allegedly 'few', are very busy boys.

but is there a chance you were just going "drink for drink" and being affected more?
I have to roll my eyes really. Yes, alcohol can affect women differently, even different times of the month. But also, some women can actually hold their liquor. Dudes will keep plying you with drinks until the 'desired' effect. I can hold my beer extremely well. Other stuff, notsomuch. So I generally drink beer when out like that.

@LaSqrrl my friend is gay. No interest in women. I trust all of my make friends, they are sometimes around my children, if for a second I thought they would hurt me, I wouldn't let them anywhere near my kids. Plus, my DP would annihilate them if ever they hurt me.
Its really not all men. These untrustworthy men take themselves to bars and clubs because thats where women are easier to be spiked! I am a believer in it being a small portion of men, its just they all seem to gather in certain places.

I used to work with a couple of guys who's modus operandi was to stay sober and not go out until about 2300 onwards. They would go straight to the nightclub and then not drink.

They did this specifically because 'it is easier to chat girls up when you are sober and they are pissed' and 'if your driving you can give girls a lift home and they are more likely to invite you in'. I know thats why they did it because they said as much one day when we asked them.

They seemed shocked when the audience (all male, about 20 of us) acted in complete unity and told them they were scumbags for that kind of behaviour. A couple of guys even threatened them with violence. They were effectively social pariahs from that point onwards.

Now I'm not suggesting they were going out spiking drinks, or that what they were doing was illegal, however it shows that it does happen, but also (more importantly) that it is definately not seen as an acceptable behaviour by other men.

I trust all of my make friends, they are sometimes around my children, if for a second I thought they would hurt me, I wouldn't let them anywhere near my kids.

Do tell, the magical sensor you have for picking out the 'good men' from the 'bad men'.

Because you basically just victim-blamed, big time, and called most of the women on this thread stupid for not knowing the difference like you can.

@Iputthescrewinthetuna Lucky you. The rest of us on this thread aren't. My rapist was my then-boyfriend, I woke up to find him in me. Sleeping people can't consent. 80% of rapes are perpetrated by men known to the victim, so statistically it's your male friends, not strangers, who are the risk.

@Lasqrrl @stripesandspots10 @vicky1990 6% of men rape and they are usually repeat offenders.

I have to roll my eyes really.

Why roll your eyes?
And why the NAWALT?
I already said in general women are affected by alcohol more than men, but as I typed it I knew someone would be along to say they can drink as much as men.
In general, women weigh less than men and have less muscle mass.
In general, lower body mass means being affected by alcohol (and any drug or poison) more.
Your personal ability doesn't come into it.

@LaSqrrl No, I did not victim blame. I am a victim, by someone I knew! To the point I can't even say the R word. However, I am really trying to learn to have faith that it is a small percentage of men, not a high percentage. I now am learning to start to have faith again and am trying to learn which men are potentially dangerous. My male friends have had to earn my trust. All I wanted to get across was for those saying it is a high percentage of men, it really isn't! I may have worded it wrong. Sorry I offended you, that really wasn't my intention, and reading back I can see how I wrote it does seem like victim blaming.
My point was spikers go to clubs because it is 'easier' for them to take advantage.

iputthescrewinthetuna
I think what alot of us are saying is it feels like a large portion of men are this way as we have encountered it alot or know people that have. When in actual fact the percentages are low.

However I feel the percentages could look low because maybe most of the time it goes unreported and therefore we don't have a true figure.

Btw love your name, used to love that programme!

It is a 'significant minority' (if not more than that).
It is Schroedinger's Abuser/Rapist - you don't know he is until he does.

The figures, which have not changed a lot in the last 20-30 years, are still understated - some are actually smart enough to understand the implication of the questions.

Count how many male friends you have, and apply the figure.

Some pick up artists (who are scum anyway) recommend spiking a woman’s drinks in their advice manuals. Commiserations to anyone here who has experienced this. It is low and hateful.

Separatists are living the Risk Reduction Model.
The rest of you, having a roll of the dice. Good luck with that.

argona some pick up artists actually recommend it!!! Surely that's illegal??

The books I am thinking about are quite old but still available.

One person who has interesting views on rape etc has a blog called Return of Kings or something like that.

One article on the site advocates a change to the US law which would basically legalise rape on private property. I would not recommend reading it unless you have a strong stomach.

LaSqrrl my understanding is that it’s not just 30% of men who SAY they would have sex wo consent if they could.
I’m pretty sure that studies asking whether men HAD sex wo consent at least once (but putting it as have sex when she is drunk/sleeping etc...) is also at a similar level....

Because they get away with it all the time. Some of them probably already know men who've gotten away with it.

Also because society in general tends to frame men getting women drunk in order to get them into bed as all good fun and part of the dating game rather than as a deliberate attempt to incapacitate someone to the extent that they can no longer defend their own boundaries. As long as this is seen as in any way socially acceptable men will keep doing it.

@stripesandspots10
Thats is very true about cases nit being reported. I just feel, I learned a valuable lesson when I was assaulted. With the person I knew, at the time I never felt he was bad at all, however, after, I looked for signs. He made lots of sexual references, not in a funny kind if way when it was appropriate , but it just seemed to be always on his mind. I am not saying anybody who thinks about sex is a bad person. However, the friends I choose to keep are not so open with the 'sex jokes.' But this is only my experience, so can only judge on what I know.
My DP went through so much when we got together, so many times I asked him to stop while we were DTD. He stopped immediately, no question why, he just asked if I was ok. This is one of the things that made me trust him.
I don't know what makes men think it is ok to take advantage of a friend, or a drunk woman, but I feel that this will never change. Having 3 Daughters, this scares the life out of me. Why should we tell our kids to never relax and always be vigilant. How many men would take advantage of a drunk woman, a friend, a young girl walking home alone. I hope and pray it is a small percentage of men.
I am damaged after what I have gone through, I feel I need to find faith in men purely so I don't flip out when my precious girls are grown up and don't have me there beside them in the big wide world.
Not long after I was assaulted, I would sit on the bus looking at any man and wonder what they were thinking about, are they as kind as they appeared to be?

When I am out, I will never be on my own, I now follow all of my Dads rules, I put a tracker on my phone so DP can check where I am - my idea for me to feel safe.

On the other side of things I wonder how decent men feel when they are feared by women, when they know we are secretly wondering are you bad? Does that make sense? As I say my DP went through shite when we got together, I pushed him away, i showed fear towards him, I tested him. He has never said anything about it, but I do wonder how I made him feel. To be tested to see if you are scum must have made him feel vile. He stuck with me though, I don't know how!

Reread my post, I have just realised, I sm still blaming myself for not noticing signs! When you think you are ok, and it is quite clear your not!

Someone drugged my drink once. No idea who. But att I was only drinking coke so it was obvious something had been added. I’ve no idea what was put in it, but I was supposed to be driving home that night and I couldn’t even hold my head up or stay awake. Very scary.
I don’t think it’s all men, just bloody idiots. In fact I suspected a woman had tampered with my drink just for “a laugh” ☹️

I am a believer in it being a small portion of men, its just they all seem to gather in certain places.

I am prepared to believe it's a minority of men. The problem to me is that it's a majority of spaces. There's at least one dodgy bloke almost everywhere - in every pub, every club, every workplace, etc.