Transphobia or truths?

[TwittleBee]

Hi there!

First, apologise if this has been really over discussed already.

I'm pretty new to the whole self ID and trans issues and pretty shocked to discover I'm probably classed as a "Radical" feminist.

How comes it's seen as transphobia when women talk about women's rights or sex or gender?

Perhaps I'm being naive, but I haven't seen anything i would class as transphobic on MN yet? Just a lot of feminists discussing their concerns for women and girls' rights?

Looking for answers so I can see both points of view but also so I can attempt to understand what is going on here.

Thanks x

You know who else wants women to believe they are weak and feeble all the time

Please point to where I called women weak and feeble?

It is a biological fact that men are generally taller and stronger than women. I have not said women are weak and feeble.

You think protecting our boundaries - female boundaries - is weak and feeble?

I say the opposite.

@ToeToToe - I only recently transitioned so if I come across as double edged it’s usually out of naivety. Yes I see the ‘worst case scenario’. This is what I would attend rallies or march on Westminster to stop. What I was asking, is would what actually end up in effect and passed to law truly be so careless. To not have any safeguarding measures to ensure it is not abused. Not just by the wanton ‘lad’ but by far more sinister intent and also just outright erasing ‘woman’ as a protected characteristic.

I have said in other threads that I use ‘woman’ to mean a collective and I identify as a trans woman and woman interchangeably but I understand that many (most) of you use it purely as a state of biology. As a result, I have changed my language we’re I can (many of you will remember I used cis regularly when I first started posting in the Parkrun thread - I stopped out of respect that many of you find it offensive).

I also accept @Ereshkigal‘s point about it giving them a trump card to play should they need it.

As well to answer your question about seeing willy in the washroom; no child should be subjected to seeing that IMO. I remember being traumatised when I was younger and I saw my dad’s. Mainly out of horror of ‘omfg mine is going to get BIGGER?!’ But you get the point, I agree, no child should have to see that.

@AngryAttackKittens - I assure you I am not trying to deceive anyone. I am simply here, airing my opinions, many of you dislike them, I dislike many opinions held by people on these forums but at the same time I agree with much of what I have read.

I am not a TRA. Yes I’m trans, yes I believe I should be afforded privileges many feel I shouldn’t get but I’m also trying my best to take in the concerns. It just become increasingly difficult to do when I have to pick around the snide comments about appearance or mental state about a group of people I belong to. Yes I have made certain opinions very clear and many of you will blame this on my ‘socialisation’ but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to call out crap when I see it.

Nobody wants to touch your body Pencils; the word "boundaries", emotive though it is, is not what you're asserting when you state who you do not wish to share a public space with. Your boundary does not encompass that entire public space. Noone is proposing violating your boundary. I'm surprised you would conflate it with your right to refuse sex.

"Audacity", Nat. Wasn't very subtle in terms of what your instinctive response is when women won't do what you want them to.

Nobody wants to touch your body Pencils;

Where the hell do you get off, saying something like that?

We all know who my comment was referring to, and we all know why I said it.

Well clearly I don't; you quoted a portion of my post and then brought up gaslighting. Granted, I couldn't work out why, by I was fairly sure I was the intended subject of your post?

Either way, if whoever you were referring to is someone you're not in an intimate (or at least close) relationship with, I don't think you do any women any favours by using the term gaslighting.

But that's just my opinion.

ToeToToe you're right, I'm sorry Pencils, I'm sure you have a beautiful body!

RatRolyPoly I have purposely avoided you like the plague but what you have just said to pencils is a damn disgrace and you should be ashamed and apologise.

Verbal diarrhoea.

Ah, so now we're moving on to the creepy portion of today's show.

AngryAttack - yes fucking creepy. And sounding, yet again, more like an abusive man than any woman I know.

Normally I don't bother but maybe we should report that comment just for the sheer "that's not so much close to the line as a giant leap over it" quality.

I'd leave it so people can see exactly the kind of person Rat is, unless Pencils wants us to report.

@spontaneousgiventime what are you actually banging on about? Pencils posted about talking to someone with no boundaries about respecting boundaries - those boundaries, in the context of the conversation, seemed to refer to who is in a shared public space. It's certainly been used in that way before. She then likened it to someone cajoling her into having sex. I said noone here was trying to touch her, i.e. violate her physical boundaries, and that I thought the use of the word was emotive but inaccurate.

Then I thought Toe was making a joke, because frankly how anyone could not have been, given the chain of comments explained above, is beyond me.

But hey, you go nuclear if you like. I apologise for any unintended offence.

RatRolyPoly How dare you minimise what you said. You are a disgrace.

What offence are you inferring exactly?

I don't think there's any doubting that I always debate things with very little offence, overt or implied, in my posts. So why you'd think I'd suddenly turned into a monster is beyond me.

I understand the fears expressed by so many women and girls. But I remain convinced that although the fears are genuine, what they are afraid of is false: it is a bogeyman invented by a tiny minority — for some mysterious purpose that I can only guess at.

Who you gonna believe? Damnthatonestakentryanother2, or your lying eyes?

I have a low opinion of people who judge others based on their use of "blue language" for emphasis, or out of habit. It signals a tendency to authoritarianism, I think, which subsequent remarks usually bear out.
Particularly when they start telling us what feminists think in order to tell us how wrong we are to think it. Lack of self awareness I suppose but tiring nonetheless when so often repeated.

Well this has all been about the language of abuse hasn't it. Minimising is the right word indeed.

Rat - you should be fucking ashamed of what you wrote.

I have no idea what you're talking about. I have explained the context of every word I've written and I believed it to be - and INTENDED it to be - innocuous.

So you can either tell me your interpretation so I can apologise knowingly or you can not bother. Up to you.

ToeToToe Hence why I have avoided like the plague. I've said more to that poster in two posts than I ever intended.

Aaaaaaaaand deflection.

Ah, so now we're moving on to the creepy portion of today's show.

Looks like it.

I made a decision to no longer respond directly to that poster after the other night's delightful 'but what does it really matter if there are a bunch of fetishists under the trans umbrella?' posts.

I may continue to comment more generally on the coercive patterns displayed in that poster's debating techniques but I have nothing to say directly to that poster that would not get deleted.

I think both of that poster's comments about my body should stand for the record.

@AngryAttackKittens - it had nothing to do with a woman submitting to my will. Everything to do with challenging a user to still think ‘genitally intact and recently on hornones’ Trans woman were more manly than the average man if she was to meet me (whether to just see me walking in the street or speak to me personally). I genuinely don’t see how that isn’t obviously the prevailingly implied way to infer what I typed? I’m on my phone at the moment so I’ll have to go back and reread what I typed myself.

How I could resolve the situation you mentioned without having just never been there in the first place.. given the level of hostility, you seem to harbour (based on your words not towards me specifically).. I am not sure.
Women walk on eggshells around you because they are afraid of you just as they do all other men.
This has been explained many times and yet you do not hear us because you do not want it to be true.