Transphobia or truths?

[TwittleBee]

Hi there!

First, apologise if this has been really over discussed already.

I'm pretty new to the whole self ID and trans issues and pretty shocked to discover I'm probably classed as a "Radical" feminist.

How comes it's seen as transphobia when women talk about women's rights or sex or gender?

Perhaps I'm being naive, but I haven't seen anything i would class as transphobic on MN yet? Just a lot of feminists discussing their concerns for women and girls' rights?

Looking for answers so I can see both points of view but also so I can attempt to understand what is going on here.

Thanks x

Just a thought: -
If gender is entirely a social;construct, then how come most adult male dogs lift their legs to pee, and most female dogs squat? How come most male wrens build nests, and most female ones don't?

Neither of those gendered behaviours are related to physical differences between the sexes!

So why is it so difficult to believe that some aspects of gender are innate in humans, too?

FWIW, I completely accept that some (such as clothes and make-up, pay gaps, gendered toys, etc.) are social constructs, many of which we could very well do without!

How come you don't get transgender dogs or transgender wrens?

If gender is entirely a social;construct, then how come most adult male dogs lift their legs to pee, and most female dogs squat?

WTF? That is hilarious. Do we need to draw you some pictures?

A penis is a male organ.

A person who was born with a penis as part of their anatomy, and no confusion - they are male: a boy baby, and then a boy and then a man.

Not a girl, not a woman.

That is all

Rat will be back telling us how it's all lovely and inclusive, and the gender neutral toilets are the perfect place for this to happen inclusively cos we are all brave strong women.

My male dog sometimes squats.

But are you serious?? Why would dogs have a gender? I suppose I could buy him a pink collar (!) and, well, he has been neutered - as I'm a responsible dog owner.

(My dog identifies with a wolf, generally, but as a lapdog on Sundays )

"We've sleepwalked to where we are now. We need to wake up and stop anything else being changed 'quietly'.

It's still legal to object to sharing our spaces with male people who are only there to indulge their fetishes (and make us unsuspecting participants).

We need to object loudly while it's still legal."

Yes.

I don't want anyone whose under the all-inclusive trans umbrella to be able to legally "be" a woman - just by self identifying. There absolutely needs to gatekeeping and safeguarding.

Rat will be back telling us how it's all lovely and inclusive, and the gender neutral toilets are the perfect place for this to happen inclusively cos we are all brave strong women.

Oh yes!

How come you don't get transgender dogs or transgender wrens?

No. 11 is a bit ridiculous anyway (are they all like that?)

There aren't any others, it was SMG's amusing joke based on the Rules of Misogyny.

I suspected as much, Eresh.

Damnthatonestakentryanother2 You claim that the Select Committee didn't listen to evidence given by organisations such as BAGIS... but that is simply not true!

Yes it is. They took the time to attempt to discredit the British Association of Gender Identity Specialists on the basis of their written evidence, but they didn't listen to them. This is remarkable in itself, given that The Association numbers over a hundred members and comprises the overwhelming majority of all clinicians working in every Gender Identity Clinic in the British Isles.

What matters in an inquiry is who is called to give oral evidence. Helen Mary Jones when she spoke in Cardiff last month.

When you consider this inquiry in its entirety - whose written evidence was referred to and whose wasn't, who was invited to give oral evidence and who wasn't, who was treated as having a legitimate voice and who was dismissed as 'women purporting to be feminists', whose arguments were carefully considered and whose were dismissed out of hand - this inquiry was biased as all fuck and if the recommendations were enacted it would mean further serious harm to women and girls.

The press have reported cis-gendered males claiming to be trans in order to obtain privileges and Dr Barrett, of BAGIS, suggested that there might also be other more varied, and sometimes sinister, motives. The Prison Reform Trust, however, felt that the numbers of prisoners in this situation, and the challenges they posed, might have been “exaggerated”.

The prison reform trust have been proved wrong. Turns out there are a fuck ton of male sex offenders who think they belong in the female estate. Turns out that some of those who are transferred to women's prisons need moving around a lot because of the 'challenges they pose'.

A bit like those dodgy Catholic priests when you think about it.

I'm sure there are also lots of lovely gentle male trans prisoners who are only locked up because they have not paid their TV licence fines. I'm sure most Catholic priests are also fine.

Another...

How come you don't get transgender dogs or transgender wrens?

You know what would be even more confusing? Transgender penguins, as they all wear dinner suits.

I love Brogressive Man.

Fantastic

The problem is that you are conflating sex and gender.

Or biology and stereotypes.

Picasso: I can't believe Rat bores on and on and on here about her libfem credentials and yet hasn't figured out a fucking thing about the scope of the umbrella and the implications of that.

Rodent problems are always difficult.
Cut off the narcissist supply.

Pencils: - inviting every kinkster with a fetish connected to feminine things or female biology to come shelter under the big lovely inclusive trans umbrella

Absolutely. But more recently, are now jettisoning those no longer 'useful' for their purposes. (eg protesting drag queens at pride parades, even though I take issue with DQs, that does not mean that me and T are on the same side!!)

So what does it all boil down to, what is their ultimate aim (besides 'recognition'?). That would be reversing a lot of second wave feminist gains. That can be their only ultimate aim. We are their main targets.

Soon their great big 'inclusive' umbrella will only contain one letter, and that will be 'T'.

The problem is that you are conflating sex and gender.

I don't think you'll find a lot of people here conflating sex and gender.

Sex is biological, gender is a set of restrictive and oppressive stereotypes. Is this what you mean by gender, or do you have a different definition? It's difficult to discuss an issue without having clear definitions about the terms being used.

And what do you mean by 'gender identity'? Again, clear definitions are needed.

The way dogs pee is absolutely about their biological sex.

All puppies, male and female, start out squatting to pee; males only begin to lift their legs as they become sexually mature. Then they begin to scent mark (even desexed dogs have some sex hormones still).

It's not cut and dried though - I have a (desexed) female poodle who both lifts her leg to pee and squats). I once owned a Pomeranian who lifted both back legs and peed walking on his front feet alone.

Apart from individual quirks, the difference is not gender but the engineering of sex. Male dogs have penises, so as they lift their leg, they tilt their pelvis (and their penis) toward the thing they are peeling on. This means their pee goes higher and further and makes a better signal. Female dogs don't have a penis, so squatting is a more efficient movement for them.

It's basic biological sexual dimorphism, not anything to do with gender identification.

And also one of the sillier arguments I've had in the issue.

I once owned a Pomeranian who lifted both back legs and peed walking on his front feet alone.

Wow! You should have taken him on Britains Got Talent