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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Universal credit & domestic abuse

404 replies

QuarksandLeptons · 09/05/2018 22:52

Good article in the Financial Times

www.ft.com/content/aaaaf2fa-4c63-11e8-8a8e-22951a2d8493

Brief summary:
10% of the households receiving the benefit are couples. The new system puts it all into one account which means that in the event of it going into the account of a controlling & abusive partner, the abusive partners can end up not sharing the money, leaving women and children vulnerable. There are cases documented of women and children going hungry and not having money for nappies or sanitary items.
Worse, women & children end up being forced to stay in dangerous circumstances because they don’t have the money to leave.

How can changes like these be made to the system without thinking through the real life consequences to huge numbers of women & children? Surely, this would have been flagged up if relevant women’s groups had been asked to comment on proposed changes

OP posts:
HelenaDove · 18/05/2018 18:49

A tweet.

CreatorOfStuff
@NoiseBot1
3h3 hours ago

"Has to take time off work to get #universalCredit sorted and to get account shut, which should of bee. Done 9th of April. Lose money because I took time off work to fix it.... Pretty sure that's not how it's meant to work.

Thanks for that"

QuarksandLeptons · 19/05/2018 12:15

Thanks HelenaDove

Gingerbread seem to have described a lot of the issues. Does anyone know whether these are being listened to?

The cases people have described on this thread and the gingerbread examples are so at odds with the government’s narrative of “making work pay”

The system penalises working, creating obstacles and hurdles at every part of the process. The fact that it disqualifies self employed people who work flexibly, is so illogical. Everyone with young kids would recognise that being self employed offers one of the best routes to better rates of pay, thereby allowing more time with children.

Gingerbread say that with some changes the system could be made to work but what is the consensus from those of you with experience of the current system?

Also LaSqyrl’s chilling description of future developments whereby people will be restricted in how they are allowed to spend their own money - seem like further moves to impoverish and disempower the vulnerable.

Surely this is at odds with the conservative ideology of fostering entrepreneurial spirit and giving people control over their own destinies. It feels like a cruel set of decisions made on the basis that as a one liner it is easily digestible as ‘stopping scroungers’ When the reality is in fact the polar opposite. Hardworking people are being impoverished and brutalised and stopped from making a decent life for themselves and their families

Isn’t it obvious that if you cripple people when they are down on their luck and don’t allow them to make individual decisions based on their own specific circumstances you will never allow them or society at large to flourish.

OP posts:
Offred · 19/05/2018 13:28

Surely this is at odds with the conservative ideology of fostering entrepreneurial spirit and giving people control over their own destinies

This is how the tories spin their ideology. What universal credit is doing in reality is their ideology. Poor people must be kept poor. The rich (preferably inherited wealth though they have accommodated new money) must be kept rich. The spin serves the purpose of creating a narrative around deservingness that ordinary people can relate to and that will lead to self policing of the oppressive system.

Offred · 19/05/2018 13:30

Their interest is in preserving ‘the natural order of things’ (the class system). This is why they are the Conservative party.

Offred · 19/05/2018 13:35

Basically it is a different interpretation of ‘successful society’. If you measure success by the general prosperity/security/freedom of all of society then society will never be successful under this ideology. If you measure success by how much of society’s resources are controlled by an elite then this ideology will create a successful society.

womanformallyknownaswoman · 19/05/2018 14:11

The cases people have described on this thread and the gingerbread examples are so at odds with the government’s narrative of “making work pay”

Yes because it's all gas lighting - it's covert criminalisation of the poor and sick - under the guise of "making work pay". The PR guy the Tories use came up with the phrase lifters and leaners in Australia - it's disingenuous and a lie - there are a tiny minority of people who don't want to work and are parasitic - I reckon a lot of them are men who financially abuse women. They could be detected if the right auditing systems were used.

The rest are people who desperately want to contribute and have a fair go - at the capacity they have - but certain conditions need to be in place for that - like high quality part-time jobs, affordable housing and childcare etc - the Tories have never been a party to facilitate those things - they believe that success is down to the individuals and that's a lie. Labour used to have the right idea but lost the plot with neocon Blair. No one else has stepped into that void - as I keep saying none of this is rocket science but does require systemic thinking skills …I wish people would wake to the pup they've been sold

LangCleg · 19/05/2018 15:41

I think also that Lisa Muggeridge's central thesis plays a part here. Post-2008 financial crash gave the 2010 Tory-led government a chance to implement ideological small state policies under the guise of "necessary austerity". But because economics is so divorced from real lives - synthetic modelling for the win! Not! - and because those implementing the policies are equally divorced from the lives of most people, they had no idea how our systems and institutions related to one another and kept things stable.

I think we are now seeing the crises emerging which prove that austerity will cost more than it ever saved, the primary casualty group will be women while instability increases and the policy makers who put it all into place have absolutely no answers.

womanformallyknownaswoman · 19/05/2018 15:59

"necessary austerity"

From where I sit it was never about austerity but about a smokescreen to implement a more radical neocon ideology that enabled asset stripping on a gross scale - it's not just small govt but they deliberately dismantle and sell off anything publicly owned - they didn't care about the impact - just about their own personal portfolios filled to the brim from putting in place a legal framework to outsource everything to companies they have a vested interest in (or will have when they leave politics - miraculous how men look after their mates)

LangCleg · 19/05/2018 16:15

Yes. And, because they are so ludicrously privileged themselves, and because economics relies on synthetic modelling, they did not understand that public services and institutions are like a Jenga tower - they don't exist separately from one another. You cannot salami slice them and expect the system to keep working.

So earlier in this thread, for example: you can't expect the Children Act to continue functioning to protect children if you simultaneously take away economic independence for working class women by introducing Universal Credit.

womanformallyknownaswoman · 19/05/2018 16:27

And, because they are so ludicrously privileged themselves, and because economics relies on synthetic modelling, they did not understand that public services and institutions are like a Jenga tower - they don't exist separately from one another. You cannot salami slice them and expect the system to keep working.

Yes your Jenga Tower is a great analogy - and there Lisa M has some amazing insights into how the whole thing is not just imploding but actually taking us back to Victorian Workhouse days (my phrasing).

The austerity of smart systemic thinking is a better summation of the state of affairs, enabled by corrupt politicians - again I note the DARVO at societal level

LangCleg · 19/05/2018 16:36

the DARVO at societal level

This is exactly what it is. And then, of course, we're back to Offred's point about class reproduction protecting itself, and my personal dislike of left/liberal social constructionism, which also preserves social power relations (gender in the case of trans; class in the case of economics).

womanformallyknownaswoman · 19/05/2018 16:48

Yes agree - we need a serious women's party - GC - or just a common sense party. Enough of the ideologues - off with their heads!! They do more harm than good by their relentless shifting the deckchairs on the Titanic - I want someone to recognise the Titanic has hit an iceberg and is sinking fast - with all hands.

HelenaDove · 19/05/2018 21:06

Speaking of the Titanic ive just been watching the New Evidence on Channel 4 . Apparently there was a fire in the coal bunker that the blokes below were told to keep quiet about Now whether this is true or not what could they have done other than keep quiet. They would have risked job loss. No welfare state in 1912.

Which has got me thinking what happens if we get further into UC rollout and go hurtling backwards re welfare state Will workers be a lot less likely to blow the whistle on a dangerous situation in the workplace because they will face destitution if they do? What happens if there is a serious incident in a workplace because ppl are too frightened to speak up. I THINK there is whistleblower protection but much like the Children Act it couldnt work in conjunction with UC.

HerFemaleness · 19/05/2018 21:31

I don't know if you've read this article from Open Democracy. It describes what Universal Credit is really designed to do. The most interesting paragraph.

www.opendemocracy.net/uk/ian-sinclair/universal-credit-internationally-unique-in-its-harshness-and-headed-for-7-million-of

Whilst UC is sold to the general public as a simplification of the benefits system, it is sold to employers as giving them ‘access to a more flexible and responsive workforce’. Part-time jobs and zero-hours contracts have proliferated in recent years, because they suited employers, but UC seems designed to keep workers in this casual, insecure employment under constant pressure. They will be required to attend a Jobcentre and demonstrate that they are attempting to work more hours or increase their pay, on pain of sanction. So UC is paid monthly in arrears because it wants claimants to behave as if they have a steady and secure income, pressures them to try to increase their earnings, but enables and encourages employers to turn those same workers on and off like a tap.

Low paid, part time and temporary workers already have very little power - UC will sanction a worker who is fired for misconduct, leaves a job voluntarily, ‘or loses pay through misconduct’. This could give unscrupulous employers the whip hand, and mean workers on UC will be afraid to lose or leave a job, or even complain, no matter how badly they are treated.

HelenaDove · 19/05/2018 22:03

"no matter how badly they are treated"

Including sexual harassment in the workplace i suspect.

Some employers are getting fed up of people having to take time off work to go to the CAB or JC to sort out UC mess though.

The bloke who owns Next was speaking out AGAINST UC on Question Time because i suspect he can see this coming.

HelenaDove · 19/05/2018 22:07

I think some employers will be learning that they cant have it both ways.

Smeaton · 19/05/2018 22:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LangCleg · 19/05/2018 23:02

I think some employers will be learning that they cant have it both ways.

There have been reported examples already of employers getting pissed off with employees because their UC adviser keeps ringing them up. So employees are in the position of being sanctioned by UC for not picking up the phone or disciplined by their employer for taking calls during work time.

HelenaDove · 20/05/2018 00:08

Thats a good example of employers wanting it both ways.

HelenaDove · 20/05/2018 00:36

Good luck for the job Smeaton.

womanformallyknownaswoman · 20/05/2018 03:45

They will be required to attend a Jobcentre and demonstrate that they are attempting to work more hours or increase their pay, on pain of sanction. So UC is paid monthly in arrears because it wants claimants to behave as if they have a steady and secure income, pressures them to try to increase their earnings, but enables and encourages employers to turn those same workers on and off like a tap.

Classic coercive control - damned if you do and damned if you don't. UC is a totalitarian regime in its own right. This is what causes people adverse health, economic and education outcomes.

It's the same old claptrap - lazy feckless people who made their own bed and we are going to treat them inhumanely and put unreasonable expectations on them because they're poor and sick. It's treating people like disposable machine parts, that you drive harder until they break.

You can't make a silk purse of a pig's ear.

I feel enraged at the inhumanity of all this and the poor women caught up in it.

womanformallyknownaswoman · 20/05/2018 03:49

And here it is in fact, in black and white, from the article linked to by HerFemaleness:

Iain Duncan Smith and his colleagues began with some very flawed assumptions and a fundamental misunderstanding of poverty, mistaking its symptoms for causes. Their ‘Broken Britain’ narrative said that poverty was caused by debt, addiction, poor educational attainment, worklessness and family breakdown. Poverty was not so much about an unjust distribution of wealth, but more about the behaviour of poor people. Fixing poverty meant fixing poor people and making them behave differently.

There was a preoccupation with people who were not working, and a belief that many had made a lifestyle choice to live on benefits. Because of this, making life on benefits far more difficult for people and thus driving or ‘incentivising’ them into employment became an overriding aim of welfare reform and UC. The fact that UC is also a benefit for people who are in work, or who cannot work because of ill health, disability, or caring responsibilities appears to be an irrelevance, with ‘making work pay’ and getting people into work still being cited as the justification for UC.

They know not what they do.

womanformallyknownaswoman · 20/05/2018 04:02

Some more snippets:

I asked Bernadette Meaden - an Associate of Ekklesia thinktank who writes about Universal Credit, welfare reform, and social and economic justice – to shed light on the complex debates around Universal Credit: why it was introduced, who it will affect, and how concerned citizens can resist it.

The suspicion and disrespect for people reliant on benefits even extended to seriously ill and disabled people, who have been treated with such harshness that the United Nations says the government has committed ‘grave and systematic violations’ of their human rights, leading to a ‘human catastrophe’. Almost unbelievably, UC continues this process, with the abolition of both the Severe Disability Premium and the Enhanced Disability Premium, and the slashing of the allowance for a disabled child. So whilst families with a disabled member are more likely than others to be living in poverty, many will be even worse off under UC. (NB For current claimants there is some transitional protection, so please don’t panic).

In welfare reform thinking, taxpayers and benefit claimants might as well be two different species, whereas in reality all claimants are also taxpayers.

UC is a fundamental change in the way social security operates. Since the inception of the welfare state people paid their National Insurance and then, if they fell on hard times, claimed benefits as their entitlement. As the founders of the post-war Welfare State intended, there was little stigma attached to claiming one’s entitlement.

Under UC, support will be meagre and conditional, and for many people it will come with so much pressure that they will do almost anything to avoid having to claim it. For people who believe that poverty is largely a matter of personal responsibility, and that redistribution of wealth and cash transfers to the poor should be kept to an absolute minimum, this will be welcome.

UC, it seems, is the flagship policy of a man who does not really believe in social security as we understand it, and is looking forward to the day the UK is more like the US or Singapore.

But there are so many problems built into its design it is difficult to see how it could be fixed, rather than starting again from scratch. But so much has been invested in UC now, politically and financially, we may be stuck with some version of it.

IS: What action do you recommend people concerned about Universal Credit take? Does the Labour Party offer a base for principled opposition?

BM: I would say make as much noise about it as possible. At the moment the government is simply refusing to recognise or acknowledge the scale of the problems UC is causing. The DWP has had years of practice, being in a permanent state of denial about the harm being caused to claimants, particularly those who are ill or disabled. Even letters from coroners linking deaths to DWP decisions, and condemnations from the UN have been dismissed. It has to become a major political issue which makes Conservative MPs fear for their seats, and the only way to do that is to raise it at every opportunity, making it impossible for them to ignore.

At the moment I’m not aware that the Labour Party has any comprehensive plan to deal with UC, other than pausing it and taking stock. But when dealing with an unfolding disaster, stopping it unfolding is essential.

Offred · 20/05/2018 08:31

They know what they are doing. They know the effects. It really bothers me that people think it’s just because they don’t really understand how bad it is. The reality is that they think these effects are desirable, they believe disabled people are useless eaters and they want there to be fewer of them, they hope that they will die, they believe the poor should be exploited to breaking point, they don’t care if they die. This is because they believe the ‘natural order’ is disrupted by social security and this is unfair on the elite who are entitled to enriched status by accident of birth. They have allowed new money some status (though note the frequency of the ‘self-made’ losing their money due to not being in the old boy’s network) because it gives them a way to spin this crap to ordinary people.

They know, it’s what they want to happen, it’s the purpose of the whole thing. I wish people would stop thinking they are misinformed or these things are unintended effects.

Offred · 20/05/2018 08:36

And for those hand wringing about ‘the far left’ re Labour I also wish they understood that they are not ‘far left’ at all. Blair moved labour further to the right than thatcher’s Tory Party had been. Those of us living it knew that, it’s why we hate Blair, it shifted the tories further right than that.

It’s allowed all this to happen.

We are used to seeing through the spin because we live these things.