Feminism and Disability

[ISaySteadyOn]

On another thread, @ThisIsTheFirstStep indicated that she'd like to talk about this. I said I would start a thread about it so I am.

I'm dyspraxic which can be a very hidden disability and very visible. Things slip out of my hands with regularity, I trip over my own feet, I break things and I really struggle with executive function. Sometimes I read what people post about DHs and DPs and housework and think that if DH posted about me, he would be told to LTB.

Despite my feminism, I do feel a bit of a failure in many ways as housework and multitasking and even the infamous mental load don't come easily to me. I sometimes think that I am letting all women down by not being super competent or eloquent or anything like that.

I'm not sure what I'm getting at, but I guess it's that even within feminism there are things you are expected to be able to do and if you can't do them, maybe you feel you can't qualify as a feminist.

I really want to hear other people's thoughts on this one.

It has a name - The Superwoman Fallacy.
I think it comes from 2 places, the first is the pressure women are under to be perfect, and the second is the general ignorance about disabilities and what they actually mean. A lot of people respond to disability with a version of 'you should just try harder', for example shouting at Deaf people.

Your reaction to your own disability is one of guilt and the feeling you are letting all women down instead of self empathy and self care. Thats part of your female socialisation.

People who believe 'if you cant do it all you can't be a feminist' are the ones failing at feminism.
Feminism is the analysis and understanding of the status quo. You can be a feminist even if your situation means are completely unable to put any of it into practice.

OP

My older daughter is dyspraxic, so I know how hard it can be. The kind of "feminism" that criticises other women for not being able to compete successfully with men on men's terms isn't feminism, in my view. Just keep telling yourself that. Also, your disability will have given you valuable insights and empathy, as well a greater resilience and persistence from having had to overcome obstacles - it certainly has for my daughter. Those are positive things, to be embraced, and they are what you should focus on, IMO.

Sometimes I read what people post about DHs and DPs and housework and think that if DH posted about me, he would be told to LTB.

My son is dyspraxic - and now that I know what I'm looking at, DP clearly is too. We just work around stuff - DS1 will never have lace-up shoes for example (and DP never undoes his!). I think this is where the partnership comes in. DP finds driving exhausting, so I do most of it. He finds supermarkets stressful, so I generally do it. BUT, the important thing is that he does try if we need him to - if I'm sick, or if we need some stuff and we're out. He's not being lazy, it's that equal effort has different results because they find some things genuinely hard.

And this is a huge point in feminism - that the equality we're seeking doesn't mean treating everyone the same - it means treating everyone fairly, and taking into consideration that person's needs - be that because they are female, or because they are dyspraxic, or because of any other thing.

this should be what intersectionality helps with - how the expectations on you as a woman, are exacerbated by the expectations placed on you as a dyspraxic woman.

I think I learned to mask my dyspraxia by avoiding many things. I wonder about how much The Superwoman Fallacy holds us back.

Isaysteadyon with all the love in the world I want to tell you off for feeling like a failure because your not. And your definitely not letting women down due to your disability.

It gets me so cross the expectations we put on women and I'm glad UpStartCow has a name for the superwoman thing, me and spontaneous touched on that the other day in a different thread.

I think disability and feminism really does need to be talked about more so thank you for starting the thread.

I hope some more smarty pants posters contribute because I would really like to read more on the subject.

I think avoiding some things is a natural and healthy response. Life shouldn't consist of a constant struggle, when there are other ways of dealing with it.

This is a good current thread about the Superwoman problem, and shows that it's completely normal to struggle with the issue!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3243863-To-ask-just-how-do-you-make-it-all-work-Life-admin-etc

@ISaySteadyOn

Solidarity sister - fellow dyspraxic here, I get you. Rather than failing at feminism I feel like being clumsy makes you feel like you're failing at womaning. Little girls are supposed to be graceful, calm and quiet. That was really hard for me and I always felt like a bumbling hippo or something.

Glad to hear I am not the only one, it's such a rare learning difficulty that you don't hardly ever meet another one.

Dyspraxics of the world untie!

Yes, failing at womaning, exactly that feeling!

Actually, it's not that rare - I've read 2% of the population have it severely, and 4% more moderately. Which means there's likely to be one child in every classroom (on average). I think lots of people are still unaware of it, and so it's under-diagnosed. Awareness has improved dramatically in the last 20 years (my daughter is now 27), but still has a long way to go, unfortunately.

I think professionals and parents struggle to pick up when someone has dyspraxia, I know many people who have it almost like a tag along condition to dyslexia, add/adhd, ASD but I think I've only met one person (a woman) who had it diagnosed as a stand alone condition. Ignorantly I don't know much about it because of that except there's problems with coordination and sometimes being organised.

Looking forward to the dyspraxia women uniting!

I'm one of those women whose dyspraxia stands alone.

Here's an example of what happens: If a non dyspraxic person knocks over a bottle of water with the cap off they right the bottle and put the cap on. Me, I stare at the water pouring out of the bottle knowing there is something I can do but what that something is doesn't get through so half a bottle is lost before the message to pick it up gets to my brain and I act on it.

Thanks Steadyon. That sounds frustrating. If you don't mind me asking is it like a recall problem? Like in a similar way some dyslexics struggle to recall the correct word or phrasing while speaking or writing except for dyspraxics it's a recall problem for movement? Really sorry if my question is super ignorant! I get it can be a spatial awareness problem as well (just trying to prove now I'm not completely ignorant )

Neurons misfiring really. DH says he can see it happening on my face. And yes, spatial awareness, I crash into things a lot.

I am constantly loosing things as well. I think it genuinely costs me about £1,000 a year in replacing lost/broken items.

I think I learned to mask my dyspraxia by avoiding many things.

this is exactly what DS1 does - he pretty much never brought home art from playschool for instance, because holding a brush was really hard for him, so he just always avoided the art table. I didn't actually realise there was something properly different about him until DS2 came along, and I realised that other kids really did just pick up stuff like feeding themselves yoghurt, or putting on their pants, or pouring themselves a drink - whereas we'd had to painstakingly train DS1 in how to do it, and the strategies for doing it. He didn't go on slides or swings, or want to use a toilet because balance was so hard that he was permanently in fear of falling (a real fear, due to the clumsiness and issues with muscle control)

Like your drink example, he can walk into a room looking for a giant, red object, that's right in front of him, genuinely look, and not see it! - if you watch DS1 pour himself a glass of milk vs. DS2 the difference is stark - DS1 has to concentrate so hard!

And in winter, I've just given in and get bulk packs of hats and gloves, and trawl the lost property every couple of months for whichever coats have gone to school and not come back.

I can see how it can be missed - DP spent his school days basically being told off for being lazy/having bad writing/bad memory/etc. it's easy to see how that could happen if you didn't realise it wasn't any of that, just that all that stuff was actually harder for him than for other people.

Oh, sorry, so yes, bringing it back to feminism!

DS1's handwriting, his lack of interest in art etc. was excused for a long time because he was a boy, DP's forgetfulness is excused, and I take up the slack. I can completely see how for girls, who are expected to be good at this stuff, there's an added dose of 'not womaning' correctly - and if you don't get the right partner, no-one to pick up the slack either.

I could recommend sporting activity. I wasn't sporty at all growing up but I find that regular exercise (esp Pilates and yoga) I have a greater connection to my body and I am much more aware of it's place in space. My issue is that there is no special support for dyspraxia - I think that this type of activity is much more beneficial in symptom management that organisational tools/free computers. They basically just give you the same package of care as a dyslexic but it's not really the same thing.

I agree with all of that. Also, I think if you are academically able, not disruptive and reluctant to ask for help, it's easily missed. Luckily none of my 3 seem to have inherited my dyspraxia. DD1 and DD2 take after DH's amazing dexterity and DS is heading that way.

Hello, so pleased to see this thread. Really interesting to discuss this.

I'm also a neurodiverse feminist (to use a rather wanky-sounding phase!!)

I have ADHD, which is a hidden disability and very much seen a male one. It can present quite differently in girls and women but we're considered to to be much better on the whole at masking it and being polite and sitting quietly because, socialisation

What's interesting about the intersection of my feminism and disability is I've grown up with this weird dichotomy: on one hand I feel I was failing at womaning by not being good at 'housekeeping' - I find household organisation overwhelming at times as I struggle with prioritising properly and am time blind.

But on the other, I feel I've failed as a feminist by being too 'woman-y' when it comes to emotions. ADHD affects emotional regulation and, darn, have I exhibited this at times. I'm much better now I'm diagnosed and medicated, but darn I've detested how I've come across in the past as fitting the stereotype of the over-sensitive, oft hysterical, stroppy woman. It was put down to my femaleness, by both others and me, when in fact a lot of it was my ADHD.

This is why gender is bullshit. We've internalised all this blue brain/pink brain crap rather than accepting we're all just people. Socialisation exists as does biology but at the end of the day we're all still human animals.

ring I have often wondered if I have adhd, what kind of symptoms do you have?

I'm pretty sure I have ADHD as well so this thread is really interesting.

Quentin Speaking in general terms so as not to be too outing, and because there are symptoms below that I don't have but others with ADHD do:

• time blindness. The ADHD joke goes that ADHDers perceive time as now, or not now.
• If it's out of sight, it's often out of mind
• daydreaming a lot
• led by what interests us in the moment, rather than what needs to be done, leading to us 'not seeing' the things that need to be done ... until there's a deadline and the adrenaline kicks in
• ADHDers typically need to be motivated by the carrot or the stick to do things they don't necessarily want to do at a time when they may not want to do it
• if passionate about something, getting totally involved

-ability to hyperfocus when engaged and block out everything else -sensitive to noise and sudden repetitive movements

• sensitive to your environment

-sensitive to touch -difficulty with transitions - changing from task to task as we get involved and it mentally takes a while to adapt -emotionally intense -overthinking -oversensitive -but also v perceptive and intuitive -losing things - keys, wallets, papers etc unless have strict systems in place -getting distracted mid task and going off to do something else

• very passionate about stuff, strong sense of injustice
• feeling easily overwhelmed, especially by Things That Need Doing
• generally creative and lateral thinking (that's a 'good' symptom )
• being a night person (tends to be true for a lot of ADHDers)

Oh I forgot PROCRASTINATION and A TENDENCY TO OVERCOMPLICATE THINGS

Putting those two in caps 'cos they're right bastards