Channel 4's Genderquake Debate is heavily criticised/ boycotted(?) by prominent transgender activists & allies .

[R0wantrees]

Transgender campaigners and organisations have released an open letter to Channel 4 criticising Genderquake, a season of programmes touted as an exploration of the gender debate, as "counterproductive".
Signees are particularly concerned about Genderquake: The Debate, a studio discussion hosted by Cathy Newman that promises to look at what gender means in 2018. It will discuss topics including: 'what defines our gender identity', 'how that affects our rights', 'should it be easier to change gender' and 'does gender matter'.

The letter, published by indy100 in full below, argues that the debate will give legitimacy to transphobia, prejudice and the notion that trans identities are up for discussion. This concern is presumably stoked by the presence of Australian-born academic and writer Germaine Greer on the panel, who has previously said transgender women "can't be women". continues...

"The letter is published in full below and has been signed by dozens of prominent transgender and non-binary activists and campaigners - and allies - alike, including Fox Fisher, Owl, Stephanie Hirst, Juno Roche, Travis Alabanza, Kate Llewellyn, Jack Monroe and India Willoughby."

www.indy100.com/article/genderquake-the-debate-transphobia-channel-4-open-letter-campaigners-germaine-greer-8341481

I saw that earlier RedToothBrush I absolutely confess to a good belly laugh.

I'm sure that the free bar had something to do with the heckling. Perhaps C4/ the production team could have foreseen that.

Jennifer finney boylan is trans, which will probably surprise no-one. (You probably realised this earlier, I've just read it now.)

@KayM2 I do feel self id will be bad for people who are trans.

Argh just realised the author makes it clear in the article, sorry v tired. Ignore my earlier comment.

I do get that people are focusing on the 'penis' thing and certainly it was a fucking stupid thing to do.

But let's get some things in persepctive. Munroe has said some shocking things, racist and misogynistic, which caused the loss of TWO jobs - for L'oreal and for the Labour Party.

Caitlin Jenner literally got away with running over another human being with a car and killing them and is on record as saying they like to sneak in to bedrooms to wear daughters' underwear

But yes, those fucking TERFs

I think they did foresee it Cister.

This whole denial of existence thing is pissing me right off. No-one is denying they are transwomen. In fact, to do so would cut of their income, would it not?

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth I do believe having MB on the program didn't help the TRA's at all. MB is probably the worst choice ever, MB tantrums and demanding people were removed was foolish and made her look like a spoiled child. While pretending MB knew what they were talking about while hair flicking, it was tedious.

I like rose of dawn and definitely would have liked to hear her speak last night. Very considered and fair in all of her points in the video.

I'm sure that the free bar had something to do with the heckling. Perhaps C4/ the production team could have foreseen that.

It looks like the production team knew exactly what they were doing...

Still think it's a real shame that they took the bait though.

The irony here is that Channel 4 might have achieved the impossible and found something on which both the TRAs and the gender critical are in agreement: that their broadcast last night was a shitshow.

Wow.

Anyone know who did shout the penis thing, because Olivia says it wasn't her

One thing I do know for sure, if Justine wanted this shit to calm down, her husband fucked that up royally last night.

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth why, what happened?

The Debate last night Destiny. Her husband is head of Channel 4

I feel very much like we need to leave Justine’s husband out of this. We would not accept it if it was suggested he had influence over the content of her website, why should we accept it when it is suggested that she should have influence over his entirely different job?

I didn't suggest that at all Badger My statement remains true.

Fair enough. Just feel it’s a bit crossing a line, it really is none of our business and she has stuck her neck out to make sure we can continue to say what we like.

I am not critisising her. Or him for that matter. But there is no doubt a huge bomb went off last night

Yes I saw the BBC confusion

On the heckling:

Some women have been trying to have this debate for years. They've been silenced or just ignored for years. If nobody's listening anyway, there's no point in putting loads of energy into framing things in a way that invites dialogue. You might as well get on with naming reality because that is more helpful in the long term. If you're not being heard, a natural response is to shout.

Because these brave women have been shouting so consistently and for so long, we are now at the point where a debate is starting to happen, for all its faults, and despite extreme resistance from the gender people. If it hadn't been for shouty women who have seen this shitshow coming for years or decades, this would all be being slipped though quietly and unnoticed, like the 2004 GRA.

I think we're at a turning point. We are just starting to be offered mainstream platforms to put forward a gender critical viewpoint. Clearly we're there under sufferance. Nobody wants to listen to us because female oppression is dull and old, but there seems to be a growing recognition in the media that it's untenable to continue shutting up ordinary women in this debate.

What we saw on that goady telly programme is women who have been shouting into the void for years, suddenly put in the spotlight on national TV and continuing to behave as if nobody can hear them anyway.

And to add to this they were set up. That's very clear from all the accounts I've seen from the specially invited audience members. And that Cathy can't host a debate for toffee.

Can anyone imagine a debate like this, flawed as it was, taking place a year ago on national TV? For most people who saw this it's the first time they will have encountered gender critical arguments. They don't know that women have been trying to make our voices heard for years. They just heard women shouting.

We need to think about tactics because the debate is starting to happen and that is a new development. We also need to think about how best to channel our legitimate rage in useful ways. This goes for old stalwarts who have been trying to get their voices heard for years as well as women who are new to the debate and are saying 'holy fucking shit how is this happening?'

I worked for a big international TV/entertainment company until last year. Diversity training was a major, major thing, we'd be bombarded with it and have to do regular online "tests". In addition, there were numerous "diversity days" throughout the year where men would delight in coming into the office in full drag and were applauded (and awarded) for cloning (parodying) female sexual stereotypes. We were basically being taught (programmed) not to question anything and if we did, it was made very clear we would lose our jobs. As a good liberal progressive type, I never questioned any of it - I doubt I would be here now if I was still working there, and it's only because of a chance (and very nervous, cautiously worded) Facebook post by a distant friend late last year that I became aware of the proposed GRA reforms and the implications for women. I probably wouldn't have explored it further if I'd still been working for the company I worked for (I worked for the company responsible for I Am Cait ffs). I'm so glad I did - it's one of those things that once you see it, you can't unsee it, and it’s fucking scary. But despite all my attempts since then to gently broach the subject with my friends still employed in meedya, they just don't/won't/can't see it. All these companies have this massive diversity drive which makes everything unchallengeable (you challenge, you're bad, you lose your job) and the trans ideology is placed under the same umbrella as racism, sexism, homophobia, lesbophobia so people just Do Not challenge it, they won’t speak out about it, they’re silenced. They just accept, embrace, celebrate it without question - I Am Cait party central. This is a huge challenge, because it’s high level indoctrination on a vast scale within the media industry. How do we get the issues across to people who are indoctrinated in such a way and are fearful for their livelihoods if they do question the ideology? These are people who are terrified (because of their employers and the circles they share) of being seen as bigots, as sharing views with Julia Hartley-Brewer, Katie Hopkins, The Daily Mail, of not being woke, liberal, progressive... I can see that because I was there, I was one of those people. But these are also people we need to get on board, they are the media, we need them to see as we do so they can’t unsee. But we won’t achieve that by heckling “penis” on prime time terrestrial TV. We won’t achieve that by disparaging trans people on social media. We need to focus on the real issues, the threat that self ID presents to women’s rights, safety, dignity and privacy. We mustn’t get distracted from that goal by TRA tactics, the gaslighting. We mustn’t gift the TRAs opportunities to claim we question their existence and rights. This is about the preservation of hard fought and won women’s rights - TRAs are absolutely free to fight for their own rights, but it’s not reasonable to expect us to fight their cause if it entails a curtailment of our rights. This is why I feel strongly that we need to be measured and pragmatic. I think ManFriday and Womens Place UK do this well.

I think we absolutely must start pointing out the implications for freedom of speech and highlighting each and every instance in which a supporter of genderism in the public eye says something that a gender critical woman wouldn't get away with. Because they don't realise that it's not ok to say certain things because many of them are being allowed to say them, to a certain extent, while they are still trans allies. So every time a Channel 4 programme or presenter uses the term "women" to refer to the group of adult humans with a female reproductive system, we need to point out that this is transphobic by the belief system they are promoting. Only when they realise that they cannot accurately report on events like the upcoming extension of the right to drive to 50% of the Saudi population will they truly get what's at stake. We MUST inconvenience people trying to talk about men and women in situations where the distinction is essential.

It was shocking that the first question to Germaine Greet was to confront her with an alleged transphobic quote of hers, while MB was not treated in the same way. Now CJ. Prejudice and discrimination in action, right there.