Uncomfortable about unisex toilets at work

[Onlyinanemergency]

My workplace is moving to new premises and all the toilets are to be unisex. Apparently the bathrooms consist of several floor-to-ceiling cubicals opening out onto shared sinks. There is then a large window onto a public corridor so that the sink area can be seen from outside the bathroom. There are 3 of these bathrooms, one on each floor of the building, as well as 3 single disabled toilets. The architects have obviously put a lot of thought into creating toilets which are unisex but also fairly safe and private, yet I still feel really uncomfortable about the idea. Particularly about not being given a choice. Am I wrong?

I think there's a few mcdonalds that have unisex toilets bar the window. I felt so uncomfortable I didn't wash my hands (luckily had sanitiser) and expect lots feel the same and don't wash which is disgusting in a food establishment

I feel uncomfortable washing hands with a man next to me after I've used the loo. I'm not 100% sure why I feel this. I can wash my hands with a man next to a kitchen sink but a bathroom feels more intimate - maybe an irrational fear they could push me into a cubicle and lock it without anyone really knowing.

I used another unisex toilet and barely realised it was unisex till this thread as plenty of women were around at the time. But I'm assuming in an office set up it wouldn't be constantly that busy. Also it wasn't somewhere you'd know anyone else iyswim (think train station not office where you see your colleagues)

Couldn't they just make one floor ladies another men's and another unisex to keep everyone happy if enough floors? And if office presumably not enough disabled people if you do use to be inconsiderate by using?

Social conditioning.

There is a unisex bathroom in one of the pubs near me. The first time I used it, I was followed in by a guy... we both stopped just inside the door when confronted by rows of cubicles and stared at each other in horror both thinking we were in the wrong bathroom. But we weren’t.

Oh I don’t know - it’s ok on a night out but perhaps different at work. I think men would definitely miss the convenience (mu pun intended) of the urinals.

Bowl:
The appeals to ‘not be prudish about periods’ are another way of shutting down women’s concerns. It places the blame for not acquiescing immediately onto the women - look we are all just silly embarrassed prudes, not like these modern enlightened people! But the onus isn’t on us to do that - the onus is on those forcing to change to make their case. And yet concerns over safety are not addressed. And it should be enough for us to say ‘no. I do not want this.’ As always, a woman’s ‘no’ means nothing.

Absolutely, they have not proven their case for 'the change'. Not at all, their arguments seem to consist of 'stfu you prude' (coming from TRAs and the anti-feminists here).

As for Rat - haven't you bowed out of this thread already? Yeah, stick to that. Your value-adding is less than zero. Basically, you keep shifting goalposts, and I see it. No point in calling you out on any POV, you'll just 're-work it' in the next post. Shall I call you Ruby perhaps? The style is identical.

No, it's not a twisting. Women are saying they want privacy and you are calling them prudes.

Or perhaps you think privacy consists of little more than not being actually visible while actually sitting on pan?

Pretty sure most men don't want to share their toilets with women either.

Some men wash their hands before going to the loo BTW, so a woman doing it is unlikely to be remarked upon.

Some of the arguments are scraping the barrel a bit- "I don't want a man entering a cubicle straight after me" for one. I'm not fond of sitting on a pre-warmed seat myself, but I do it. Unless you have the perception that they don't think you shit?

Face it: if trans people wanted a trans-specific third space they would get it with a snap of the fingers. They don't want that. TW aren't unsafe in the men's. They just want into women's spaces.

Personally I'd be happy with 1 toilet rooms with lockable doors.

I'm not a fan of having anyone (male or female) in the cubicle next door when I'm having a loud/explosive dump.

Whether it's the annoying bloke from sales or the annoying woman from sales is irrelevant - I'd still rather they weren't there.

Women are less likely to be sexually assaulted if toilets are sex specific.

Basically, you keep shifting goalposts, and I see it. No point in calling you out on any POV, you'll just 're-work it' in the next post.

Weirdest criticism ever, that I might actually be taking something from the discussion and be open to changing my views So I post some stuff, come back the next day and say "sorry, I think I went a bit far" and in some strange land that's a bad thing?

Okay LaSqrrl, if you think so. You can "see it" all you like because it's a quality I'm rather glad I possess. And I have no idea who Ruby is.

@infertlilitybitch You're not irrational for fearing sexual assault or being pushed into a cubicle. newyork.cbslocal.com/video/3849466-police-seek-suspects-in-park-bathroom-sexual-assault/

We had a unisex toilet at my work. Absolutely hated it.

Face it: if trans people wanted a trans-specific third space they would get it with a snap of the fingers. They don't want that. TW aren't unsafe in the men's. They just want into women's spaces.

This!

bd67th

But the toilet in that article wasn't gender neutral.

Surely if a man wants to assault a woman in a toilet, he's going to follow her in & assault her whether it's a women specific toilet or a gender neutral one?

He's already decided he's going to do it, knows he's breaking the law & won't be discouraged by the stick figure on the door...

Surely if a man wants to assault a woman in a toilet, he's going to follow her in & assault her whether it's a women specific toilet or a gender neutral one?

That's not really how it works, for two reasons.

Firstly we don't remove safeguarding on the assumption that a predator will manage to circumvent it.

And secondly, men have to do very little to make women feel intimidated and uncomfortable.

The smug flick of an eye, a lingering stare, a smirk. Certainly nothing illegal, or anything you could complain about. But something that is evidently lascivious, or designed to intimidate. Women experience it all the time.

It's particularly effective when the perpetrator knows there is nothing the woman can do about it.

It's a male dominance display. We shouldn't have to deal with it when we are vulnerable and want privacy.

One has to consider what impact one's choice has on women as a class (and that in its extreme is pure radical feminism). So if your period behaviour makes periods more shameful and difficult for all women, it is not a feminist behaviour and it wouldn't be supported by a pure radfem.

This is a. a rather ugly attempt to twist what women in this thread have been saying and b. an indication that you don't understand radical feminism. But we already knew that.

As for Rat - haven't you bowed out of this thread already? Yeah, stick to that. Your value-adding is less than zero. Basically, you keep shifting goalposts, and I see it. No point in calling you out on any POV, you'll just 're-work it' in the next post. Shall I call you Ruby perhaps? The style is identical

I don't know who Ruby is, but my recollection is that Rat asked us to 'enjoy our circle jerk' when they exited - a phrase that I found both odd and offensive considering the nature of this thread and board. Rat seems a bit confused about sex, gender and bodies in general I think.

Illustrious: no. You are wrong. Where women have toilets and facilities that are sex specific, they are less likely to be assaulted. This is according to Amnesty and the UN. I don't usually resort to appeals to authority, but circumstances (up to and including wilful blindness) require it.

So if your period behaviour makes periods more shameful and difficult for all women, it is not a feminist behaviour and it wouldn't be supported by a pure radfem.

Bollocks. Again, woman shaming. Again, blame all on women. Again, minimising the argument. It’s all your fault women. Stop behaving like you’re behaving and start serving men. And shut up about your periods.

@ratrolypoly

So OP, I've been thinking; if this goes ahead and these end up being your loos - and they don't have basins in the cubicles - you could perhaps lobby HR to provide little baskets full of sanpro in each cubicle and a packet of baby wipes for bloodied hand cleaning. If there is not shelf you can get little baskets that sucker to the walls. To be honest, this is the kind of guerrilla action I would take anyway without involving HR, but then insist they keep it up once initiated!

HR have fuck all to do with toilets. HR is not a handy team of women sitting about waiting for you to pop by with a shopping list of toiletry supplies you fancy having. If you came into my office insisting I had to do this for you, I would be telling you to go take a running jump. And then we would be laughing about your stupidity for months.

Why should women have to make do with little baskets of sanpro? When the glaringly obvious solution is just to keep the women’s loos.

No one wants unisex bogs. Men don’t, women don’t. A tiny proportion of often aggressive activists do and they’re getting their way but it’s ok because there maybof may not be some sanpro and wet wipes in a basket...

Generally I don't mind the idea if it's applies to cafes etcetera. I've been in unisex cafe loos and it makes more sense in some ways so then your not waiting around for the girls loo to be free if someone says in it for example, or then being forced to use the bloody stinking dirty male loo if the girl one is taking ages

However for stuff like school and workplaces I think it is less suitable. The boys for example could make fun of the girls if they see some sort of period evidence. As all the people know each other rather than being strangers like in a cafe, and think it could create awkwardness for example if one of the girls knows one of the boys fancies them that would make me feel awkward in a unisex loo situation.

Trousersdontmakemeaman you actually @mentioned me to say that?

Why should women have to make do with little baskets of sanpro? When the glaringly obvious solution is just to keep the women’s loos.

So much this