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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Who wants to tell Labour Party?

64 replies

user1471451327 · 08/05/2018 09:53

mexiconewsdaily.com/news/oaxaca-candidates-arent-transgender-after-all/

OP posts:
Rufustheyawningreindeer · 08/05/2018 19:28

Im going to have to get a map of the London Underground

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 08/05/2018 19:28
ElizaDontlittle · 08/05/2018 19:35

I'm not sure you really need a map... I mean, whose to say that Bristol Temple Meads hasn't decided it identifies as a London Underground station.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 08/05/2018 19:42

Oh god im so confused....

Sounds like a game my family would love Grin

Or loathe Hmm

One of the L words definitely

BrashCandicoot · 08/05/2018 19:43

Eliza I’m pretty sure the Edinburgh Association agreed in 1987 that it’s included in months with a “y”.

Tinkletinklelittlebat · 08/05/2018 19:52

Brash but only if you're playing by the Queen Felsworthy Royal Convention, which has been frowned upon since that incident with two Dukes, a plumber and an egg whisk.

ElizaDontlittle · 08/05/2018 20:14

Oh well that's ok then Brash Grin

I think - forgetting this being about men and their motivations - it is human to push the rules and be tempted to be out for what you can get. A civilised society tries to protect against that. So it's not so much why would someone pretend to identify as female to get a political nomination, or whatever, but why wouldn't they because if you leave it as a loophole, someone will. That's only human. This issue is only going to affect men because they see AWS as an easier route to what they want and no such benefit, obviously, is available for women.

OlennasWimple · 08/05/2018 21:06

Genuine question - what is "humiliating" and "degrading" about the process to get a GRC? I keep seeing it described this way, but haven't seen any part of the process that fits what I understand to be "humiliating" or "degrading"

But reading the letter I have found one thing that I can get behind, in that I think refusals from the panel should have a right of appeal or some other statutory review process, as with other decisions made by public bodies. If anyone puts a petition for that in front of me, I'll happily sign it

PencilsInSpace · 08/05/2018 21:18

I bloody love these women! Their faces say it all Flowers

Who wants to tell Labour Party?
PencilsInSpace · 08/05/2018 23:09

OlennasWimple from everything I have heard and read, the process of getting a GRC is as nothing compared with claiming disability benefits.

GIRES have produced a short guide. Some extracts:

The civil servants work directly with the applicants and do an excellent job in assisting applicants to put their information together in the most favourable way.

If the panel views your application as completely acceptable they will issue a “decision” and the relevant certificate (interim or full) will be sent to you within two weeks of the panel date. If a full certificate is issued this office will, unless you have advised them you wish to do this yourself, inform HMRC, and arrange for a new birth certificate be issued by the General Register.

The GRP is definitely minded to grant applications, wherever legally possible, which is why directions are given rather than making final decisions which might not be in favour of the applicant. So despite the high rate of requests for further information very few applications actually fail outright. In most cases the issues are around information not being submitted correctly, the most common one of late being the stat dec form not being filled out correctly and/or not witnessed and signed in the prescence of someone qualified to do so.

Most years, over 90% of GRC applications are successful.

I agree there should be an appeal process but I have to wonder what sort of cases would be refused.

Every day I see jaw-droppingly cruel and stupid reasons for refusing PIP or ESA/UC. If I remember right, there's around a 60% success rate at appeal for PIP decisions. Far from being 'minded to grant applications' the DWP had a target to fail 20% of claimants when moving them from DLA to PIP and were forced to drop an 80% target to fail mandatory reconsiderations* in December last year.

And this isn't for a bit of paper that's pretty much obsolete in 2018, this is for money to eat, money for water and fuel, money to get about, money towards the bajillionty things that cost loads extra if you have a disability. And guess what? Unlike the GRP, the DWP doesn't handily keep everyone informed so if you lose your ESA you have to go to the council asap with a letter that says your ESA has been stopped but you're still poor and can't afford your rent so please don't stop housing benefit as well. But nobody tells you this so at best you end up in debt and at worst you end up homeless.

If you want to see 'humiliating and degrading' look no further than the hoops disabled people have to jump through just for bare subsistence. Look no further than your local food bank.

*Getting way off topic now but a mandatory reconsideration is a stage you have to go through before you can appeal a benefit decision. For claimants who have failed a work capability assessment, once your appeal request is accepted you will be paid ESA or UC at the assessment rate but while the MR thing is going on you have a choice of surviving on no money for an indefinite period or signing on and being treated as a regular jobseeker, with all the hoops and risks of sanctions that entails. There is no time limit for how long the DWP can take reconsidering a decision at the MR stage - the longest I have seen is 5 months. For many claimants, this is what forces them off the old benefits onto UC and, because they have put in the claim themselves, they are deemed to have 'naturally migrated' and so lose transitional protection (i.e. they are worse off even if they win at appeal).

PencilsInSpace · 08/05/2018 23:13

And I haven't even started on the immigration system yet. That's a rant for another day.

What I will say now is that people who describe themselves as 'gender refugees' need to have a long hard think about what's actually involved in gaining refugee status in the UK today and exactly how much life is a bed of roses for people even once they have gained that status.

Melamin · 09/05/2018 00:28

I always remember that programme where a woman had tried to get funding to allow her husband with Alzheimer's to be cared for at home and to die at home. Then she was on a later programme - she had finally got the funding although her DH had had a distressing stay in a care home for a while (distressing because of his reaction, not the home). Then the next year, she had to fill in the damned forms again, in case his condition had improved Confused pages and pages of it - she needed professional help to get it done the first time.

PencilsInSpace · 09/05/2018 01:06

Most days of the week I see someone reduced to tears through having to fill these fucking forms out or request an MR or an appeal, and/or request a food bank referral.

Frankly, GRC applicants who whinge about the process don't know they're born.

The GRA passed because everyone was told this was a tiny few people who were suffering greatly from gender dysphoria.

We keep being told these new proposals would just make it easier for people who need to live as the opposite sex. This is utter bullshit.

By doing away with the requirement for a diagnosis of gender dysphoria, these proposals simultaneously -

  • grants rights to every fetishistic cross-dresser, and every MRA out for mischief, to ID as a woman and claim women's legal rights accordingly
  • removes the rights of transsexuals to proper health care for their condition (because if 'trans is not an illness' why should there be any NHS funding?)
LangCleg · 09/05/2018 08:47

Most days of the week I see someone reduced to tears through having to fill these fucking forms out or request an MR or an appeal, and/or request a food bank referral.

And I'm at the food bank, seeing them.

Pencils is right. The UK state is abusing people left right and centre. Thousands upon thousands of them. It's not abusing trans people applying for a GRC though. Those people have the bureaucratic red carpet rolled out for them when compared to the treatment of the ill and disabled or those trying to regularise immigration status.

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