Raising a Boy

[MyOtherUserNameIsAUnicorn]

I'm lying here next to my beautiful 13 week old boy wondering how we raise our boys to not be the patriarchy.
He's white, I guess middle class, and a boy. He's going to grow up with so much inherent privilege. I know I'm going to teach him respect and consent but what else? Anyone with older boys help me on this?

Trust your instincts. He is a baby first and foremost. He needs love and care. The rest will come naturally.

I'm actually feeling pretty similar to you OP. but my boy is 11 and a half. He hasn't hit puberty yet but I know it's coming soon.

He is such a lovely boy (all us mothers think that tho). He has three older sisters and we've all tried to bring him up with equal respect for all. He's very tuned in to girls needs without any apparent desire to be one. For example he will happily fetch his sisters tampons if they have a bathroom emergency. We have spoken about consent, bringing in the issues with boys that happen to his sisters occasionally (in an age appropriate way).

I'm really scared about the porn thing which I'm playing by ear at the moment and haven't mentioned to him.

I would recommend two books: "Raising boys" (which I haven't actually read but is said to be good) and "Why love matters"

Yes @Terfulike Raising Boys is on my list. I'll have a look at the other one too.

The porn issue is terrifying. I work with teenagers and I know how skewed by porn their views and ideas about sex are.
I think if you ban or over protect them from something it makes it more alluring... so we're left with trying to have that conversation about it.

Watching with interest as the mother of two small boys.

So far, this is what we do:

My DH and I have as equal a relationship and roles as biology allows. We have made a conscious effort to raise our sons so that they aren’t restricted by sex stereotypes and do things that suit their personalities. One is still a baby so not much to do yet.

With our older son who is nursery age, he does activities that are typically associated with both sexes, so rugby and lots of running around and rough play but also dance classes. His toys are all things that I would also have bought a girl, like Doctor’s kit, tool box, puzzles, Duplo. He also has a baby doll and a cooker and washing machine.

In our home we both do housework, DIY and we both have the same profession. So far, he seems to see us as equal.

I work part time, as I can as I’m my own boss and can earn enough in the reduced time. I’m still breastfeeding and don’t like to express and like to spend as much time as I can with them - so in that respect - my husband and I do have a more traditional set of roles.

In terms of giving our son ideas about consent, obviously he’s really young but I always point out when he’s playing with his younger brother that he needs to stop immediately if he sees that his brother is upset and not enjoying the game anymore. Also, that people and their bodies need to be respected, not to hurt people by climbing over them etc, being aware of other people and how they are feeling.

We let him cry when he’s upset, we got be him cuddles and let him talk about things that he’s worried about.

I think in some ways it’s easier with a boy as you don’t have the sea of pink that seems to deluge parents of girls.

However, I think so much of the problems that men cause as adults via violence, crime etc come down to them not being raised with an allowance to having complex emotions and also not socialising them to view pleasing other people as a favourable characteristic.

Autocorrect Typo fixed -

We let him cry when he’s upset, we give him cuddles and let him talk about things that he’s worried about

Congratulations on your baby by the way OP!

Quarks you certainly sound like you're doing a grand job there I particularly liked the bit about stopping when his brother gets upset.

If it's Steve Biddulph's "Raising Boys" there's quite a bit of guff in there. He reinforces some gender stereotypes and it's very dated. A pretty good read as long as you think critically. He seems to be the source of the myth that small boys experience a testosterone surge at 3/4. They don't. And many people when their boys start mixing with others and picking up aggressive habits think it is this mythical hormone surge causing it. Thereafter embedding the idea that boys can't help but be aggressive. One thing I've been careful about with my ds is to respect his boundaries physically. I've noticed people allowing their little boys to be roughoused and tickled when they're really small. I hope that my ds understands his own boundaries and then other people's. I am very strict that he must not be rough with anyone. Energetic - fine. But gentleness is a fundamental requirement and violence is never ever tolerated no matter how young. So all in all... The same as my dd.

Thanks @QuarksandLeptons he's lovely:) it doesn't half get you thinking about the world though, some great ideas too you do sound like you've got it sorted.

I guess I've got a head start in that I'm the primary wage earner by a long shot and DP will be looking after him lots in the week. I love the idea of making sure everything is equal in the house! MAT leave has started to domesticate me but I'm not very good at it!

@SarahCarer critical reader head engaged. I really dislike anything that suggests boys/ men can't help aggressive/sexual etc. behaviour. Reminds me of backwards ideas I was brought up with.

I actually think that these 'raising boys' type things are a bit like horoscopes - written so that you can find just enough that matches your boy to make you feel it's useful you bought it.

I say this because my two boys are entirely different - what works for one as far as learning, discipline, general treatment is useless for the other.

We're not particularly equal - I freelance, DP works long hours, so the kids mainly see me doing stuff (I suppose at least DP isn't very practical either, so we're not traditional either - the kids see me putting the furniture together and fixing stuff, while DP goes to the kitchen and cooks lunch) - but that works too - the kids are very clear that mum can do anything.

I think the hardest thing for me has been watching my own biases - and then not over-correcting - letting the kids have their head. DS2 has always loved pink (DS1 doesn't have a favourite colour), and by God, it's surprisingly tricky - because you don't want to buy everything pink (or get that thing where he'll only use the pink cup/assumes that because it's pink it's his), but I also don't want to discourage him from something he enjoys.

And yes, porn is a huge worry for me, now DS1 is getting older. DP and I both work in IT, so there's devices and gadgets everywhere. Actually DS1 is less of a worry - he even comes and talks to me about adverts he's found scary/inappropriate on youtube, but when DS2 gets there, he's more gungho, and won't bother running it by his mum.

I just make sure I keep talking to them, I don't fuss about them seeing me naked etc.

I read a quote once, which I can't remember, but it was about listening while your little ones talked about little things, because they might seem silly to you, but were hugely important to them, and that way, when the kids were older, they'd still talk to you about things that are important to them (and might then be really important to you too)

I don't have a way with words, but it really struck me as something to take to heart.

Be open minded . Your son may be gay.
Be equally aware that when raising girls that you don't pander to stereotypes.
Above all, remember, you are raising a child . Relax, love and enjoy them. Celebrate them as individuals.

Reading this with interest, I have two young sons and spend a lot of time thinking/worrying about how to help them grow into decent boys and men. DP and I prioritise gentleness and kindness, we encourage them to articulate how things make them feel and reward or praise them when they are kind and thoughtful to each other or to us.
We're also very careful about what books they read and what (little) TV they see, and talk to them about what they are watching and reading. I avoid overly gendered clothes - I also have a pink loving 3 year old who so far is blissfully unaware that people think it's 'for girls'. I think this and having access to any toys they want (regardless of which sex it's intended for) is an important way we can teach them that no-one's choices should be limited by their sex.
I get cold sweats when I think about porn and haven't worked out how we'll tackle that one yet!

I've also got a boy and think about this often. For me, I think dialogue and just talking about things is the most important. DS and I chat about all sorts of things -- his emotions when he's sad, cross etc, about history and how some people don't like or treat others well because of race or sex, about the importance of being kind.
When something is bothering him, he'll talk to me about it, often just to work through his own thoughts and that helps.
He's still a little young to to affected by porn but I'm very aware that's only a few years away at best.
I think that there's often not enough dialogue on how to raise boys as a feminist and it's often focused purely on this being for girls benefit but it's worth remembering that our sons are going to have much happier lives if we raise them to have healthy relationships with women.

Hopefully we’ll have the porn thing somewhat restricted by the time he’s of age, I know it’s a bit of a worry I have for mine too! Lots of
talking about intimacy as opposed to just sex. Also a focus on female pleasure. I didn’t have much of a father myself, but my best friends dad was a gynaecologist so when I turned 18 I asked him a lot of questions on sex and women (from a mechanics perspective), the conversation stuck with me he explained all about female pleasure and to focus on that which I have to say stood me in good stead.

There's a new updated copy of Raising boys out. (Thank god as some of it was total rubbish and sexist). Was going to do a separate post here today.

Steve has been doing a lot around porn, consent and emotional literacy of boys - worth following him on fb. I'm going to get it and read it carefully. This is the synopsis:

*FINALLY, WE ARE PROUD TO ANNOUNCE, the new book is in shops across Australia, Ireland, and the UK !!!!

And to prevent confusion about whether its a totally new book, or an updated one. Its a very very updated one. This book still has the best stuff in there, which has helped many parents over nearly 25 years, but has a whole lot of new material too.

Specifically

1. A completely new stage, discovered by researchers in 2017, and dubbed the Emotional Eights. Adrenal hormones activating around the age of eight, showing up in saliva tests, and brain changes visible on MRI scans, along with boys becoming much more emotionally intense. We talk about what to do to make this stage go well, as its important for their long term mental health.

1. A complete rewrite of the Testosterone chapter, because the Full On Fours stage is different to what we first thought. But still important to understand. And…

1. Stunning research by Alan Schore into baby boys both in the womb and in the first year of life shows that they are MUCH MORE VULNERABLE than baby girls to stress and upset, and this may explain many of the problems we have with males throughout their lives. We have to look after young parents, and their babies, much better.

1. The mother-wound, and the father-wound - how it can go badly wrong between boys and their parents if we don’t fix our own baggage.

1. How to talk to boys about pornography - this is the new “big talk” that parents have to have with sons, but we tell you the specifics - what to actually say to them, about how real love is so different to what they see on screen. Its not hard once you know.

1. A special section on how the science has changed in the last few years to rewrite what we know about gender differences.

And lots more - on transgender, stopping violence, making your boys safer, whether to use daycare or not, and when, and the campaign to stop school being regimented and starting TOO YOUNG for many boys.

If you think these make it worth buying a new copy, please do. But your old copy is still good stuff all the same. There are no reversals - just additions!!! Please tell your friends too - you are welcome to pass this email on.*

Hopefully there's reversals regarding testosterone at age 4 as that's been debunked!

Early consent:

sonshinemagazine.com/magazine/teaching-small-children-about-consent

Going to read Raising boys with a massive critical head on however I do think there are some things that May be physiologically different in boys.

Research by J McKenna at Notre damn university found that cosleeping when younger positively impacts boys when they're older in ways it didn't appear to do for girls. I've always puzzled over why this could be.

I have taught in moderate/ asd Sen schools for many years. I've often queried why it's always mostly boys we have. The OTs always says there's differences. It surely can't all be socialisation?

Porn is something I had to deal with about ten years before I was prepared for it (DS was shown it by a friend when at his house - I do have all appropriate security on at home). My advice for that is to teach them honestly about sex at a younger age, so if they are exposed in an environment you can't control it is less of a 'big deal' (to them anyway - I was bloody traumatised!)

I'm brain dumping before school run; apologies!

I'm about to have a second boy. I have become extremely gender critical as a result of having boys. I had no idea that many of the things girls encountered (but I seem to have avoided due to they way I was raised; encouraged to get into stem , could do what a boy could etc) were reversed - although I was aware at age 5 if the unwritten rules among boys, around boys in the home corner etc which I felt unfair.

After a conversation around having two boys (I was one of girls) My friend if two girls asked how I was going to raise my boys with a 'feminist angle' as it had never occurred to her. I don't think it had occurred to be hugely till I had a boy.

A lot of it is stereotypes and consent, emotional literacy.

The bbc documentary no more girls or boys is also a very starting point to look at how stereotypes go both ways and how it potentially impacts in later life.

So I do hope Raising Boys is less stereotyped now.

I just want to know how to raise a stable, confident, thoughtful, happy child.

I have 2 teens, but one suffers, badly with anxiety and depression, has always struggled with a good percent of other children (feels put down excluded by them) but can maintain good friendships with a few.

He is not sexist, and values women and girls, and spots sexism on telly and films.

But I just want him to be happy, I want him to have faith in his future.

I never set out to raise him to avoid becoming part of the patriarchy. I raised him to be a good person.

But if I could turn the clock back, and find away to raise him, to avoid his A&D I would in a heart beat.

Ekph, I'm one of all girls who had all boys too (and so far so have both of my sisters)

Following this with interest as I have a six-month old son. I notice in the summary of the new Raising Boys that there seems to be a section on vulnerabilities in the first year so I should get reading (pinch of salt at the ready!)

This is an interesting read and makes a good deal of sense to me: mobile.nytimes.com/2017/06/02/upshot/how-to-raise-a-feminist-son.html

Watching with interest as I’ve be pondering this since I found out that I’m probably (view wasn’t great) expecting a boy after just assuming I’d always have daughters.