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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

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535 replies

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 06/05/2018 11:08

Have just grassed you up for banning them @MNHQ

They said "Mumsnet you left us no choice"

I think you are supposed to hang your heads in shame Grin

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13
Ereshkigal · 08/05/2018 08:50

Have you seen their posts this morning? They're now demanding that MNHQ go and remove every single post or thread that doesn't meet the tough new guidelines they want them to set.

LaSqrrl · 08/05/2018 09:12

They're now demanding that MNHQ go and remove every single post or thread that doesn't meet the tough new guidelines they want them to set.

MN walked right into that one, didn't they?

R0wantrees · 08/05/2018 09:16

Last week's announcement:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sam-gyimah-crackdown-on-students-silencing-free-speech-x28jx85fc

"Students will be banned from refusing speakers a platform at their universities under the first government intervention on free speech on campus for 30 years.

Sam Gyimah, the universities minister, will announce tough guidance on the issue at a meeting today, calling attempts to silence debate “chilling”.

R0wantrees · 08/05/2018 09:19

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3242812--Amnesty-International-Mermaids-and-Stonewall-have-signed-an-open-letter-to-Penny-Mordaunt-stating-the-importance-of-reforming-the-Gender-Recognition-Act

from yesterday's Pink News exclusive.

In the open letter, the groups have highlighted the “humiliating” process the current law requires to change the gender on legal documents, as well as pointing out that transgender people face discrimination and abuse that remains unchallenged while the government delays the review.

“The longer this delay goes on, the longer abusive invective is allowed to continue unchallenged by a government who rightly pride themselves on robustly speaking up for its minority citizens,” the letter states....." continues

CuntinuousMingeprovement · 08/05/2018 09:24

Can you link the tweet eresh?

LangCleg · 08/05/2018 09:26

MN walked right into that one, didn't they?

Basically put out a clarion call to all Twitter monomaniacs.

ScarletBegonias · 08/05/2018 09:28

Have you seen their posts this morning? They're now demanding that MNHQ go and remove every single post or thread that doesn't meet the tough new guidelines they want them to set.

They're also inviting additional people to join them in monitoring and reporting offensive posts.

I can't seem to get the old Woody Guthrie song "Vigilante Man" out of my head this morning. (Ry Cooder version.)

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 08/05/2018 09:35

Well it was obvious where that was going. The fuckers want total capitulation from @MNHQ and to have mumsnet reduced to threads about chestfeeding and menstruators and prams. And women telling TIMs how 'cute' they look on Style & Beauty.

Not going to happen.

Would take a bet that the Housekeeping boards will be left alone though

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OvaHere · 08/05/2018 09:43

Would take a bet that the Housekeeping boards will be left alone though

That can be the board we stage a rebellion in then! Innocuous post titles such as 'How often should I replace my toilet brush?' then fill them with feminist discussion. Grin

DisturblinglyOrangeScrambleEgg · 08/05/2018 09:43

Jesus Christ - I've just looked at the 'transphobia' and what the fuck are they talking about?

Are we all, on a parenting site, seriously supposed to pretend that males and females don't exist??

Honestly. I'm living out of the UK at the moment, in a place where there's rather more on people's minds than fucking around with gender, but if this insanity continues, I might just have to make that permanent!

R0wantrees · 08/05/2018 09:44

Catherine Bennett wrote:
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/29/violent-misogyny-not-confined-to-internet-incels

"Photographs of one vitrine, featuring a red bespattered T-shirt reading: “I punch terfs!” (trans-exclusionary radical feminists/women who disagree with me), may have struck a chord with anyone following the current UK debate about the government’s self-ID proposals. To date, threats, from one side, which echo, inescapably, some of those in the pro-Rodger playbook (“die in a fire terf scum”) have yet to generate comparably widespread concern, even after a woman was punched. Her assailant had earlier expressed the wish to “fuck up some terfs”.

For many prominent women, the violence threatened by Rodger fans must sound especially familiar. Caroline Criado-Perez, to whom we owe the new statue of Millicent Fawcett, is just one brilliant woman to have been rewarded, on Twitter, with sexualised menaces (”choke you with my dick” etc), which attracted nowhere near the appalled interest that now surrounds “incels”, as we should surely agree not to call these men, and not only because it implies that involuntary celibacy represents a special condition. It’s often called, for instance, “being single” and is what dating websites were invented for.

To agree to use the lads’ pet terminology, is, moreover, to suggest that something distinguishes them from legions of other threatening men expressing a similar wish to control, punish or just silence women and, critically, in similar language. Such as, to non-compliant sexual targets, “choke on my dick”. A glance at Twitter confirms how generously such abuse has been accommodated, even as the repetitive insults and threats indicate gendered hostility to women in general.

If sexism does not explain how rapidly the language employed against dissenting women (including some trans women) in the UK self-ID debate, degenerated, in some quarters, into generic-sounding obscenities (eg, to unco-operative lesbians, “choke on my ladydick”), perhaps it’s because social media has for so long facilitated the delusion that hate speech, as applied to women, is simply part of the landscape.

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 08/05/2018 09:50

Egg

Those examples of 'transphobia' are evidence of their batshittery and bullying. I hope they continue to post these. They are doing our job for us

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R0wantrees · 08/05/2018 09:51

James Kirkup expressed admiration for both Mumsnet and Justine Roberts, "
Justine Roberts is great. Roberts is the founder of Mumsnet who has this week come out fighting for free speech and sensible political discussion, both of which are at risk in the debate about gender laws."
blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/04/if-mumsnet-can-stand-up-for-free-speech-why-cant-mps/
(extract)
"Why Mumsnet? Because a website previously best known for chat about childcare, biscuits and something called a penis beaker has developed an important role in an important political debate.

As I and others have noted before, it can be hard to talk about the politics and policy of gender and sex if you aren’t prepared to simply repeat, without question, a certain orthodoxy (some tenets of the faith: “transwomen are women”; self-defined gender trumps biological sex; some women have penises.) Because when you question that orthodoxy, some people call you names and maybe even threaten to do bad things to you. Especially if you’re a woman. Hence lots of women who do indeed question that orthodoxy find it hard or frightening to raise their concerns openly. Instead, they talk via Mumsnet, where the “Feminist Chat” forum is heaving with women (and yes, some men) discussing reform of the Gender Recognition Act, single-sex exemptions in the Equality Act, the safeguarding policy of Guiding UK and other issues that arise when you let men take the right to be treated as women on the grounds that they say they feel like they’re female. I’ve learned an awful lot by following such conversations.

The prominence of that forum has been growing in recent months and some people don’t seem to like that"

LaSqrrl · 08/05/2018 10:01

Wow, that tweet Ereshkigal!
We did warn MNHQ though, didn't we?

Interesting where it goes from there. Two options, keep capitulating until it gets rebranded as Tnet... or ignore. The latter will probably end in DDOS attack and hack. My advice women, protect yourselves, identifying data, messages, etc. Do it now, be prepared.

CuntinuousMingeprovement · 08/05/2018 10:10

Oof MN, you set up a way for people to report posts they don't like on twitter? Blimey I could have told you that was going to go tits up. I hope you have a dozen new moderators!

NoSquirrels · 08/05/2018 10:58

Would take a bet that the Housekeeping boards will be left alone though

Grin

Have just had a read of the Twitter account. I quite enjoyed seeing all the articulate arguments being reposted somewhere more public. Bravo!

Ereshkigal · 08/05/2018 11:06

Oof MN, you set up a way for people to report posts they don't like on twitter? Blimey I could have told you that was going to go tits up. I hope you have a dozen new moderators!

To be fair many people pointed this out at the time.

CuntinuousMingeprovement · 08/05/2018 11:12

I didn't even know about it until now. But really, one could hold the same view as the person/s running the MN Transphobia account and still see what type of bed MN were making for themselves with that one. It's just so obviously going to cause them masses of trouble!

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 08/05/2018 11:31

Just had a look at one of those threads

Oh look, @MumsnetTowers #mumsnet is trying its hand at victim-blaming. It's all trans ppl fault that #Mumsnet hosts #transphobia because apparently it's up to trans ppl to police their site for them

And here we have @MumsnetTowers #mumsnet trying to shift the blame for the content on their site that is openly claiming that the fight by trans ppl for rights and equality is a fight for paedolphilia ONTO trans ppl, telling us WE have to police the site and report everything:

MNHQ really can't win here

Amalfimamma · 08/05/2018 11:57

@mnhq

They tried it with Twitter. That account didn't last 12 hours because Twitter took no shit from them. Hth

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leyat · 08/05/2018 12:04

'Mumsnet can't win here'

That's why they need to take a principled stance and give up on acquiescing to TA's. Twitter reporting was a huge mistake and I think MNHQ should just face down the criticism they will get on Twitter from TA's and stop taking reports from outside the MN site, citing potential issues with the linking of Twitter and MN accounts which has already happened and makes those women less safe. I think they should keep guidelines simple, and in-keeping with the law as many others have said, upholding free speech. And they shouldn't take a position on gender politics, which is what they are doing by deleting posts for sex based pronouns but not for cisgendering (both of which should remain/be treated the same way) - I've said this before - but even Twitter doesn't do that.

Bowlofbabelfish · 08/05/2018 12:42

The more I read the more I beg @MNHQ to NOT draw up intricate guidelines on what is and is not OK.

Keep it really simple. Your current guidelines on racist/religious hatred type posts? Just add ‘and transphobic’ on. Do NOT get bogged down in lists of what is and is not ok because they will pick at it. They will use ‘gish galloping’ techniques en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop

They will demand you comb through everything.

And what do we tell women on the relationships board who are dealing with unreasonable, narcissistic monsters? Grey rock and disengage. Simple short guidelines, remove the Twitter reporting and just deal with transphobic posts as you do with any other post that’s hateful

Good luck with it. And please, please get a coercive control expert in to MNHQ for training. Your eyes will be opened.

Battleax · 08/05/2018 13:19

They will demand you comb through everything.

They’ve already asked for all historic posts to be checked, which is clue to the reasonableness levels.

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 08/05/2018 13:30

Quite Battleaxe.

15 years of posts.

To be checked for Thoughtcrime, 'misgendering' and other such infractions.

The entitlement is breathtaking

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