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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Benjamin Zephaniah "...are you controlling a woman?"

35 replies

Flatpackjackie · 02/05/2018 12:23

Interesting article. The ex's attitude is sad.

www.theguardian.com/books/2018/may/02/benjamin-zephaniah-admits-to-hitting-a-former-girlfriend

OP posts:
FloraFox · 02/05/2018 12:43

I think I'd rather hear his ex's view directly from her.

Original poster
Flatpackjackie · 02/05/2018 12:48

Ah, yes I hadn't thought of that.
It'd be a shame to think that BZ's attitude is flippant towards DV. I'm presuming it isn't though.

OP posts:
Lottapianos · 02/05/2018 12:50

I agree Flora. His reflections seem to be all about himself, and the impact his actions had on his life,and how his hypocrisy looked to others. He doesn't show much empathy for the women he actually assaulted and imprisoned in their home

LunaTrap · 02/05/2018 12:54

Maybe if he wanted to move on from being controlling he could have acknowledged his past without dragging apparent statements his ex made into it that will lead those who read it comment on her attitude rather than his violence. Let her tell her own version if she wishes.

nauticant · 02/05/2018 12:55

Apparently the beaten ex isn't too bothered about it these days. Maybe that means it wasn't "violence" violence but was in fact some other kind.

AngryAttackKittens · 02/05/2018 12:56

“There was one girlfriend that I had, and I actually hit her a couple of times, and as I got older I really regretted it. It burned my conscience so badly. It really ate at me, you know. And I’m a meditator. It got in the way of my meditation.”

You poor man, that must have been so hard for you.

Hmm
moofolk · 02/05/2018 12:57

Mate. Got in the way of his meditation. That's harsh man.

DioneTheDiabolist · 02/05/2018 12:58

I find this article disgusting. He beat a woman while in a relationship with her and then, when she didn't react to his apology the way he wanted her to, he trashed her by implying she was stupid and unenlightened.

Nasty.

Spudlet · 02/05/2018 12:59

It's all a bit 'me me me meeeeee poor little MEEEEEEE!' I mean. His meditation, you guys. Seriously. How tragic for him. Hmm

LunaTrap · 02/05/2018 13:01

Spot on Dione. Even the OP is focused on the ex's attitude, it was a good way for him to deflect from his actions.

AngryAttackKittens · 02/05/2018 13:04

Man, the knowledge that I once accidentally stood on my cat's tail is really interfering with my yoga practice. Should I force her to say she forgives me, and then write nasty things about her in the newspaper if she doesn't?

MinaPaws · 02/05/2018 13:05

Yes, he clearly only did it because she really wanted him to. She probably made him do it. Shame his meditation sucks as a result. Ah well.

terryleather · 02/05/2018 13:08

BZ's autobiography was Book Of The Week on Radio4 recently.

I only heard one ep which was about his father's violence towards his mother that ultimately caused her to flee with BZ.

Iirc, he spoke about them not being welcomed at a women's refuge and his father attacking his mother in the street some time later.

I'm shocked now about his behaviour towards his ex.

Spudlet · 02/05/2018 13:09

Yes. Yes you should. Totally reasonable. How dare that nasty cat have her own thoughts and feelings, rather than just behaving exactly as you wish, all the time? Outrageous!

The more I read things like this, the more that saying about 'feminism being the radical notion that women are people,' makes sense to me. Men like this just can't bear the idea that women might have thoughts and feelings of their own, can they? We're the supporting characters in their film, and we need to stick to the script.

Original poster
Flatpackjackie · 02/05/2018 14:59

“There was one girlfriend that I had...". 'That'?! An object, not a living being then?

It's a shame because I really like a lot of BZ's work.

OP posts:
Original poster
Flatpackjackie · 02/05/2018 15:02

Yes, "It got in the way of my meditation.". Seems almost a parody, doesn't it?

OP posts:
EBearhug · 02/05/2018 15:24

BZ's autobiography was Book Of The Week on Radio4 recently.

This week. I heard some this morning, talking about stealing tools, friends getting shot by rival gangs, and being a decorator for prostitutes. I'm not surprised to hear of more violence.

OlennasWimple · 02/05/2018 15:48

"At one point I was violent. I was never like one of these persons who have a girlfriend, who’d constantly beat them, but I could lose my temper sometimes"

Ah, that's OK. He wasn't one of those domestic abusers, he only did it sometimes Hmm

RedToothBrush · 02/05/2018 15:49

How many of you listened to the whole interview yesterday?

I did.

He was very remorseful and made the point that it was two blokes talking about the subject which wasn't ideal.

But he also made the point that it was necessary as man talk about why he was wrong to other men to change attitudes and crush this idea that this was a mans role and how they had to demonstrate to other men their masculinity and break the culture of toxic masculinity.

I therefore don't think the extract does the whole conversation justice.

I listened, uncomfortably at first (expecting excuses) but by the end I think it was fair enough position. I don't think he ever justified it beyond saying he was wrong, a fool and a follower who was a hypocrite who didn't think.

In terms of apologising, he did so to the person involved. And he hasn't tried to deny what he did. Indeed the anecdote was offered unsolicited and without a leading question into it. It was an issue he thought important and should get attention.

I'd encourage anyone this has bothered to have a listen on catch up. It was on about 2pm yesterday on radio 5.

lightthedarkness · 02/05/2018 20:51

Thank you RTB. I have listened to it and also felt that he was genuinely remorseful.
Surely we have to accept that people can change and regret their past actions? I realise how difficult that is, but we have to be allowed to 'atone' for our errors and I thought that was what I heard.

doctorcuntybollocks · 02/05/2018 20:55

I don't think domestic violence is an 'error'.

DioneTheDiabolist · 02/05/2018 21:12

I have no doubt he feels remorseful, after all it was disrupting his meditation. His comments regarding his victim's response to his apology were unnecessaryand made to portray her as deserving of or desiring DV.

BZ has stopped beating and controlling women but I think he is still a long way off regarding us as equals.

Ekphrasis · 02/05/2018 21:16

Thank you RTB. I was gutted to hear this as had considered getting his autobiography for a dear friend who left a verbally abusive and controlling husband and is a huge fan of his. I'm still not sure if I can actually if it is going to describe this sort of thing but it would be good to find out more.

AncientLights · 02/05/2018 21:21

I heard BZ being interviewed on R4's 'Front Row' this evening & he talked about that incident, I think he only talked of it as one time. He said he was 15 when it happened (ok still no excuse) and he went to see the girl/woman concerned years later and she told him she though he was a wimp. I'm not sure whether she thought that because he'd gone to apologise or she'd thought that at the time. Someone upthread mentions his use of 'that' in 'there was one girlfriend that I had' - personally I would prefer 'who' for a person, but if you listen to American English they will usually say 'people that ....' so I don't really think we can say it proves anything about BZ and objectification or anything to undesirable, it could just be the influence of his Caribbean background.

WhereYouLeftIt · 02/05/2018 21:22

' I said to her, ‘I’m really sorry for the way I acted in the past. It wasn’t me, I was just following the crowd,’” '
That is not taking responsibility for past behaviour IMO.

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