Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

DARVO, coercive control etc

58 replies

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 26/04/2018 14:10

I've seen these mentioned on a few thread here, as tactics used by MRAs in particular, to derail threads etc. I'm aware that these are tactics used by male abusers, and as such are distinct from the usual sea lioning, straw men etc?

I know there are a lot of knowledgeable people on here, and I was wondering if any of them would feel able to speak some more about these.

After a quick Google I am not really very much wiser, and I'd really like to stop get sucked into what other users spot immediately

OP posts:
womanformallyknownaswoman · 29/04/2018 16:49

Bump

ReluctantCamper · 29/04/2018 17:01

yes, thanks to some tutoring by other kind posters here I spotted narcissistic behaviour on a thread and left the poster to it.

Useful indicators are

you're all so mean, I'm leaving
I'm back temporarily and may stay if enough people say how nice I am
my feelings are so hurt that I just have to leave now

and so on. Honestly I will never again accuse my family of being socially maladjusted. All of this is new to me....

womanformallyknownaswoman · 29/04/2018 17:03

Yes the crying wolf and playing the victim - "it's just a disagreement" - you're being mean telling me I'm derailing - when they are deliberately blocking and countering all the F888ing time

LangCleg · 29/04/2018 17:14

you're all so mean, I'm leaving

If someone does that once and then comes back, it might be because they have been badly treated.

If they do it over and over again - particularly if the challenge they don't like is one that redirects discussion away from them and back to the conversation topic - you can be pretty sure you've got a narc on your hands.

The only real purpose in pointing it out is so that others in the conversation can recognise what's going on. But be careful because the narc sees it as encouragement. Any attention is good.

thebewilderness · 29/04/2018 20:27

Failing to stick the flounce is a red flag for sure.
Some people just leave, while others announce their departure, but a flounce is a performance.

Pratchet · 29/04/2018 20:55

It's incredible you can spot these tactics so easily and make accurate predictions about how they will behave.

Rufustheconstantreindeer · 29/04/2018 20:59

reluctant

I agree

Trouble is i can sometimes see it happening...but i doubt my instincts

Dumb thing to do really...instincts are cool

lightthedarkness · 29/04/2018 21:12

There seems to be a lot of attention being paid to some very tedious anti feminist posters at the moment. I really can't be bothered - they're never going to change their views and are merely using the board as an opportunity to display their own particular anti-women misogyny.
(Having said that, I do enjoy the nightly reaction to our office based visitor who also likes to lecture us on how we are doing feminism wrong Grin )

BlytheByName · 29/04/2018 21:15

I realise having read this thread that someone on my fb has been sea lioning me every time I post something about self id which is usually on a Sunday as I'm free to read the papers. Last Sunday I spent hours patiently going off and backing up my arguments that the sealion was requesting!
Today I did the same.. What a bloody waste of time.
Though the fact I'm putting the subject out there does mean I've smoked out three or four acquaintances that I didn't realise had peak transed which is fantastic.
I also hope some people are reading it all and forming opinions and maybe educating themselves. So it's worth it I suppose.
I feel a bit foolish though.

However I've set myself a challenge of two people a week to educate.

Acorninspring · 29/04/2018 21:28

Thanks for the thread. Could I ask someone to explain the term gaslighting?

SweetGrapes · 29/04/2018 21:33

OMG! The sealion cartoon on page 1 is so good! I had a vague idea but was not quite sure what it meant! All is clear now.

lightthedarkness · 29/04/2018 21:42

Acorninspring
To manipulate (someone) by psychological means into doubting their own sanity. Anyone is susceptible to gaslighting, and it is a common technique of abusers, dictators, narcissists, and cult leaders. Techniques include:
Telling blatant lies
Denying they said something, even though you've proof
Wear you down over time
Use things close to you / important to you
Their actions don't match their words
They use confusion, projection and lies
Tell you you're crazy and align people against you.

In addition to this being used in relationships, you can see these techniques being played out in public against feminists regularly at the moment (and on here) .

IJustHadToNameChange · 29/04/2018 21:43

Gaslighting is emotional abuse that makes the victim believe or appear to be mentally ill

[[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslight_(1944_film) The term comes from a film where a husband tries to convince his new (and rich) wife she's insane.

It can happen in relationships where the abuser has the victim believing that they can't cope without the abuser and at work as well.

Narcissists are pretty good at saying something (without witnesses present) and then denying it when questioned or confronted about it later.

IJustHadToNameChange · 29/04/2018 21:44

Sorry link fail

thebewilderness · 29/04/2018 21:49

I was just a child in a dysfunctional family when I saw the film "Gaslight" on TV. I feel sickish every time I think about it.

Acorninspring · 29/04/2018 21:52

Thanks for the explanations. I'm also hoping to start understanding some of the dynamics better, as others have said.

ErrolTheDragon · 29/04/2018 22:32

Useful thread, thanks!

thebewilderness · 29/04/2018 22:52

The Gift of Fear and Why Doe He DO That both are excellent reads that help us sort ourselves out at the same time we learn to recognize the art of the con man.

SweetGrapes · 30/04/2018 07:51

Another one for my viewing list - Gaslight. My mind has been opened so much since I have been on mumsnet. Thankfully, have also developed pincer grips on my brains. They are not going to fall out, hopefully!

LaSqrrl · 30/04/2018 08:32

Most of them are gaslighters really. They don't mind the odd or 20 lies to get the job done.

Males particularly excel in sea-lioning, the whole (rather passive-aggressive) "I really want to believe you, but you just haven't provided enough solid evidence to prove your position". Wasting others' time by making them cite sources, over and over again. Usually they pretend to be 'Male Allies' or 'Nice Guys', when they are anything but.

Of course the 'best' trolls like to mix it up, keep switching tactics. And sometimes pretending to agree with part of a comment, then sea-lioning the remainder.

Fun times. (not)

Ereshkigal · 30/04/2018 08:34

Of course the 'best' trolls like to mix it up, keep switching tactics. And sometimes pretending to agree with part of a comment, then sea-lioning the remainder.

There are some fine examples of this here on MN.

Rufustheconstantreindeer · 30/04/2018 08:39

f course the 'best' trolls like to mix it up, keep switching tactics. And sometimes pretending to agree with part of a comment, then sea-lioning the remainder.

Goodnes you're right

Rufustheconstantreindeer · 30/04/2018 08:39

Wait

That sounded rude

Very good point...

LaSqrrl · 30/04/2018 09:02

The 'exceptions troll' is another common one. Gosh, if it happened just once, never mind the other way a million times over - that exception somehow disproves the rule!

We see this type just about any time there is a DV thread, and a male (sometimes female handmaiden) comes on declaring 'but I knew this friend who was abused by his girlfriend!' Usually when they use this form, they are lying anyway, they infer a first/second hand knowledge in order to look legit. Then they go on to declare "see, this proves women are just as violent as men!". As predictable as night follows day.

AngryAttackKittens · 30/04/2018 09:11

The "rape is the result of a misunderstanding" troll is my least favorite type.