Influx of Trolls/ Transphobic Posts on These Boards

[terfing]

Over the past week, there's been an influx of new users posting transphobic threads and comments. I suspect that they are doing this, taking a screenshot, and then posting it on Twitter etc to show how "anti-trans" we all are... They seem to come out at night when moderation is slower and so their threads stand for longer.

Is there much we can do about this? It's clear that they're trying to close the discussion down and paint us as transphobic. Maybe we could ask for new posters to not be allowed to start new threads here at night?

I also always think that @thebewilderness 's rules of misogyny are excellent reference points to use. I've got a screen shot but need to type them out in notes for ease of reference.

Yes, thebewilderness's rules of misogyny are excellent. One or more can always be used as a response to the posts.

I don't think the solutions proposed are intended to make a safe space where we don't hear different views, isn't it to help stop users starting a controversial thread as proof that we are transphobic? Of course, these threads could be started by long term users under name changes.

Well then a marker by new posters? I’ve seen that done on other threads. No inhibition of chat, it just gives everyone a heads up that someone is recently arrived.

A lot of transphobic stuff is being posted by regulars here. If you got more people joining you, maybe it's because it appears to be a safe place to express such views.

thanks for the feedback WidowWadman. I guess our definitions of transphobia vary wildly.

When I lurked I saw you as a transactivist, widow

I posted in favour of the thirty day thing last night, but am re-thinking that stance this morning, after reading the more recent comments. It is such a difficult thing to tackle.

It really comes back to better moderation.

Where widow?

Because I genuinely see very, very little. And what I do see is called out by posters.

Can you give some specific examples? My current view is that what people are classing as transphobia is mainly disagreement. I can disagree with people and post my views and that’s not phobic.

If I attack someone for being Christian that’s not Ok. If I criticise Christianity as a doctrine, that’s perfectly OK and not christianophobic. There is a big difference between criticising an individual and criticism of a doctrine, law, ideology or stance.

And yet on here I see examples of the latter called phobic. It’s not.

I'm confused.
Are newbies going to be banned from posting for 30 days (why 30 days why not forever? since our voice isn't appreciated) or have to have a record of posting elsewhere on MNs to be able to post (can't come for feminist thread alone/ to prove our normality)?
This is because
old posters are getting worn down by trolls?
tras are posting and screenshotting and giving MN a bad name?
Am I missing something here?

Well then a marker by new posters?

This is a pretty good idea. Would also stop all of the "name changed but been on MN since cube of poo" threads.

Meh. I actually signed up in Nov/Dec last year it seems, and only started posting this week. Either I am the most patient troll ever, or, the proposal won't really resolve anything. I am friends with thebewilderness btw, for over a decade. Lost count actually. Her 'rules of misogyny' are totally brilliant.

I think as I am becoming more informed and entrenched in my gender critical views I am becoming less tolerant of some of the posts that are classified as transphobic on here. I'm not sure that transphobic is the right word for them-but I am not sure that the constant "man-in-a-dress" type narrative is helpful. And I didn't like the tone of many of the posts about Lily Madigan-any more than I liked the way she spoke, posted and behaved. I think there really is a case for "going high"

30 days? Hell it was nearly two years before I posted on here. I'm still uneasy about the idea though.

Admittedly I'm not often on here late at night, when it sounds like most of them are about and I can see that it must be exhausting.

But I think we're in danger of attaching far too much importance to troll posts. As a former long time lurker I can promise you they do themselves no favours whatsoever.

And I'm not even sure what difference it would make other than perhaps giving us a 30 day respite before it starts up again.

I de and re registered last week after the intern breach. My previous email was yonks old and too identifiable.
I’m Ok with there being some kind of newb stigmata by my name. I’d just have to build up the history again.

Or we can continue to post as normal - when people are that fired up by Faith they dgaf for others opinions anyway. It’s not the transactivists whose minds we will change, it’s lurkers, new posters and people driven here by the howling hatred of MN in the TRA community. Let them come - bring us yer huddled masses and we will open their eyes.
I could remark that it’s a tad warmer than the forecast and someone would scream transphobia at me. Sigh. One of my previous posts actually ended up on twatter. I felt quite proud.

personally I agree with you BertrandRussell. There are plenty of ways to call out the Jane Fae's of the world without resorting to 'man in a dress'. Talk about what people say, what people do. How people dress is of little or no interest.

however I wouldn't necessarily advocate deleting those posts. Just be aware that you're not being very persuasive if that's the way you go.

I also think that nearly always misgendering and deadnaming is a bit of a dick move (to coin a phrase). It's a distraction- and gives the TRA a stick to beat us with. We need to focus on the actual issues, not constructing ammunition to shoot outselves in the foot with.

new members should be welcomed with pack of biscuits and some tea sent to our homes.

then what we need is a mumsnet webcam chatroom so we can all eat our biscuits and drink our tea and talk about those BERFs, HERFs and GERFs.

damn those GERFs on twitter

In 2011 Sony gave users of its PSN some free games after it was subject to a data breach.

Mumsnet should do the same. We should demand some goodies as compensation!

regarding deadnaming. It's important to acknowledge that trans people had a past where their name was different, and to be able to talk about that past.

thinking you're smart because you call Lily Madigan 'Liam' is, indeed, a dick move.

And that’s why it has to remain a social courtesy not a legislated ban.

If I’m calling someone repeatedly by their previous name to provoke them I’m being an arse.
If they have done something in their previously named existence we need to talk about, then banning mentioning it is dangerous.

If I attack someone for being Christian that’s not Ok. If I criticise Christianity as a doctrine, that’s perfectly OK and not christianophobic. There is a big difference between criticising an individual and criticism of a doctrine, law, ideology or stance
This.

nd I didn't like the tone of many of the posts about Lily Madigan-any more than I liked the way she spoke, posted and behaved. I think there really is a case for "going high
I agree.
My DH summed it up for me after I got fed up on another LM / RD thread. Why the hell waste our oxygen validating their dramas?
Let them make little youtube videos about hard done to they are. If getting lots of comments from carefully selected fan club members validates them, go for it because most of the world probably think they are daft 20somethings looking for drama and likes.

They only go after women who are critical even though lots of men hold similar views. They only go for women because they know men won't take their shit.

No man on earth is going to be told he must sleep with a transwoman who has chosen to retain male genitalia. As soon as they try and go down that route with lesbians properly (beyond YouTube videos and echo chambers on twitter), all anyone has to do is point out that men could also be told they must have sex with a penis owner. Ergo, solidarity.

Much as I wish it wasn't the case that male views are valued more, there will be a tipping point where men also see the issues with the new ideology.

Sooner or later they'll talk themselves into corners and people will look at the entire TRA ideology and see it for the hate-filled nonsense that it is (& see that it is possible to dislike an agenda whilst having no hate towards actual transmen/women who want to transition and live in peace).

I’d also say that I don’t like the posts going after people’s appearance in general. There have been a couple however where it has been very relevant to the discussion at hand (talking about the concept of ‘woman as dress up’) or hyper sexualisation etc. So I think it’s important to keep an eye on what’s being said rather than saying talking of appearance is verboten

My main problem with tglwgh is more the expectation it reinforces that women should always be nice. I’m really rather cross about this whole issue and while my general mien is to be reasonable and while I’d hope I was never abusive, I do want to reserve the right to use language that is proportionate, even if that's considered strong.
I don’t want to see people silenced, I don’t want debate restricted to people who can parse things in dry academic tones.

My opinion from my last five or so years on MN is that it’s rarely if ever abusive in tone anyway. It’s irreverent, it’s robust and sometimes you get your arse handed to you, but it’s not the cesspit many other comment or chat sites are.
When you compare the level of incitement to hatred and violence on twitter and the web at large, there’s simply no comparison. I refer you to the charming song posted by two bearded gents the other day on you tube advocating smashing women’s teeth out with a brick, as a prime example. That simply would not happen on MN - because there’s no market for that hatred here.

In recent months I've seen Jennifer James, Dr Nicola Williams and Jean Hatchet joining/rejoining and posting on here. A 30 day rule would have affected them too.

I've never seen Julie Bindel post on here but what if she wanted to join in the thread about the Bristol meeting?

The more I think about it, the more it feels like an own goal that would only serve make TRA trolls feel important.

And I totally agree about Lily Madigan threads/posts - they make me cringe. And all comments about appearance/dress sense/hair colour. If I want to talk about clothes, I go on Style and Beauty.

the concentration on personal aspects of LM both here and on twitter will have played a considerable role in the argument that transphobic abuse against transgender people has grown considerably in the last six months.
The comments to LM on Twitter were significant in the use of mass 'terf blocks'