My daughter perceives me as 'bigoted' re transgender issues.

[FunderAnna]

Two days ago I posted the following on Facebook

"A survey from employers asks 'What is my gender identity' and gives 4 possible answers.

1. Male (including female to male transmen)
   
2. Female (including male to female transwomen)
   
3. Non-binary (for example, androgyne)
   4)Prefer not to say.
   
   There is no option for me just to state that I am female."
   
   Within minutes I got a Messenger response - including screenshot - of this post from my daughter saying she couldn't see why this was an issue and she'd like to understand at some point.
   
   I messaged back saying yes we could discuss it at some later point and adding a bit of chat. I tried three times to send it and then realised she had blocked me.
   
   Yesterday after I'd emailed her she said that my posting that had made her feel incredibly upset and that she perceived the post as 'bigoted'.
   
   I think I'd find responses from feminist Mumsnetters quite helpful at this point. My daughter has just started her final term at university so it's best if I remain fairly calm about this one. We generally are close and get on well. As I only have a PAYG mobile, messaging each other by FB had worked well as a way of having the odd quick chat. Email feels more distant.

[ErrolTheDragon]

Let's just remind ourselves of the meaning of the word 'bigot' :
'a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions.'

I don't see that in the OPs post. I'm afraid it seems to be her DD who is displaying intolerance to a different opinion.

[Teacuphiccup]

I would click ‘prefer not to say’ and then in any other comment box explain that I am female sex but I don’t believe in gender identity as I identify as my sex not my gender which I actively reject.

I’ve been thinking about it a lot because I collect this information at work and the system I use defaults to gender - ‘Male’ ‘female’ ‘none’
Which is totally irrelevant because I need to know sex not gender as I need to know if someone could potentially be pregnant or not.

What their gender identity is doesn’t matter to me as it doesn’t affect the service they recieve and there’s already a space for them to put their title.

So I’ve removed the question entirely and just have ‘are you pregnant?’ instead.

[Nextloorejext]

My problem is they’re asking for your gender identity - they’re ignoring biological sex and going for identity. Id have a problem with that too. I tried to join the Labour Party recently and one the first questions was your “gender”. I think sex should be recorded and then possibly an extra for TW/TM/NB/GF/DB etc

[Idontdowindows]

Unfortunately as your daughter is at uni, where it is at the moment incredibly bigoted to even say that the female of the species carries the young, there's not much you can do except explain that the whole identity thing is highly problematic, especially when measuring equality.

[SummerSeason]

It was actually discussing a similar issue with my daughter that helped her peak-trans (alongside her losing to a male-bodied person in a sporting event).
One of the very small companies I freelance for was looking informally at their gender pay gap, and sent out a similar survey. One of their most highly paid employees was a very recent MTF self-identifying trans woman, without a GRC or any medical diagnosis or treatment, having transitioned later in life, after all the biological and social advantages of being male (e.g. not taking the career hit of mat leave/child rearing/wife work, and in this case, an all-male top school and male Oxbridge college). Their gender pay gap was terrible if they didn't consider this employee a woman, but pretty respectable when they did. (Which of course they did.) explaining this in answer to teenage DD asking "but why does it hurt you if men who want to be women are included as a woman in this survey" really helped her to get it.
However, I brought it up carefully, face to face. I don't think she'd have had the same reaction to me raising it on social media.
Can you get together with your DD for lunch or something and talk?

[FlaviaAlbia]

Blocking seems an overreaction. Do you normally get on well and are you able to discuss things together?

I'd be inclined to think it's hit a nerve for some reason unless there's existing tension between you. I know students seem to be into no platforming but this seems extreme.

[Juells]

@SmilingButClueless If someone chooses to believe in the social construct of gender, then let them align with their choice.

But what are your options if you don't believe in the social construct of gender?

[SirVixofVixHall]

I don’t think that is bigoted. Women are a distinct category, it isn’t appropriate to put them in a bracket which essentially means feminine, as it certainly doesn’t mean female, if it included male people. You are perfectly correct re data gathering too.
Identity is such a nonsense term . I don’t identify as a woman, I don’t identify as anything. I AM female. I don’t know anyone with an “identity”.

[TripleRainbow]

In terms of collecting data for inclusion purposes trans people are at a disadvantage if there is not a box specifically for them.

If it's not known whether a person is transgender how can data be collected to determine if transgender people are discriminated against or fairly represented.

[Joanna57]

I would have written, underneath the options 'non of the above'.

Or just not answered the question.

[SmilingButClueless]

@Juells you answer it as ‘do not identify with a gender’, which is why the question needs more options. I couldn’t have answered the question as it’s posed.

[Teacuphiccup]

We’re going to end up with pretty meaningless data if we ask about gender identity rather than sex.
I’m sure trans people can just decide whether they want to tick anyway?

Sex ‘Male’ ‘female’ ‘prefer not to say’

Asking for gender identity makes people question their gender identity and you’ll get more people saying they don’t have one.
Which is good if it’s a survey about gender identity but not much else.

[Incredulousme]

Surely they meant 'If you were born female tick the female box and if you were born female but have changed to become male also tick the female box.

[Saracen]

"I also imagine you've got previous for it, and your daughter has had enough." This was my first thought too.

Perhaps your daughter or someone she loves is transgender and she finds it hurtful that you went out of your way to post on Facebook?

People do have different opinions, but it seems odd to post something on social media which you could have anticipated would upset some people. Did you know it would upset your daughter before you posted?

[Incredulousme]

Sorry that was wrong

Meant to say tick female if born female and if born MALE and changed to female also tick same box

[TheDailyMailLovesTheEUReally]

I'm interested to find out why posters on this thread who think it reads as bigoted, feel this is the case. Why does this sound bigoted to you?

[Lichtie]

I don't think you're bigoted for the views OP, but it's not something I would have posted on social media. That's not a criticism, you should be allowed to post whatever you please, but there are always some things that annoy people.
Hope you sit down and talk to your daughter and it all gets sorted.

[QuoadUltra]

Of course you aren’t bigoted. Bigoted is not wanting the discussion.

[CartoonsAndVodka]

My dad is racist and speaks some hateful shit at times. Thankfully, he has only works out email, so I delete his offensive rot before I open it. In person, I walk away. Sounds like your DD has 'walked away' from the conversation and may come back when she can face it again.

Generation gaps are taught, for both sides.

[BarrackerBarmer]

Of course you're not bigoted.

The survey is refusing to monitor sex.
Which is the single most important factor in monitoring sex discrimination.
It's also attempting to make you adopt an invisible 'female identity' ladybrain if you expect any equality monitoring of your situation.

People are free to believe that all women have a ladybrain and that some men do too. Some people believe in creationism.
But women have a right to object to such sexist bullshit nonsense and to refuse to be categorised by it.
Also to insist upon being categorised by sex for equality monitoring purposes.

I would give your daughter some time to stew. Blocking you is ridiculous.

Welcome to the influx of new posters.
How interesting to see you've all found the feminism boards.

[Oblomov18]

Not bigoted.
Blocking seems an over-reaction.

[Wombman]

I don't think it's bigoted it's symptomatic of the start of the erasure of woman

[FloraFox]

Only bigoted under the new definition of “bigoted” meaning anyone who believes that sex is a material reality and women are disadvantaged because of their sex.

[FunderAnna]

Incidentally the form was one of those online ones where you can't leave out a question. So I had to contact the organisation I work for to explain my position. The guy in the office was really helpful. (The organisation itself dislikes the way this question has been framed, but it is their funders who have dictated how the questionnaire was put together.)

'Prefer not to say' doesn't really work for me as I am happy to give information that will be of practical use.

[ErrolTheDragon]

but it is their funders who have dictated how the questionnaire was put together.

Ah, I think we've just found the real bigots in this story.