School axes head boy and head girl roles, two boys are voted into new gender neutral positions

[Kookabura]

Link to telegraph article here: www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2018/04/17/grammar-school-axes-head-boy-head-girl-roles-bid-establish-gender/

My friend said "that's alright, the head girl is more there to help the head boy - it's his fault"

...........

Misogyny, every culture in the world is saturated with it.

And now apparently the people running this school think that the solution is to pretend that it will go away if you pretend it doesn't exist. Good job, well done, you really showed those students how equal girls are.

Why would someone with a user name of PatriarchyPersonified join a message board for women, and then gripe if we see things from the female point of view?

DarthArts

I agree that it seems bizarre to 'do away' with the traditional role of Head Boy and Head Girl. At my school, the Head of each respective sex was seen as someone for the others to look up to.

I fully believe that a leadership team comprising all boys, or all girls can be equally fair, providing they are the best people for the job. I imagine rememberthetime would have no problem if the school/pupils (it isn't clear) had chosen two girls instead of two boys.

I just took exception that they decided (on no evidence) that the very existence of two male leaders is incontrovertible evidence that bias has taken place.

I imagine rememberthetime would have no problem if the school/pupils (it isn't clear) had chosen two girls instead of two boys.

Fair point. Would posters be so objectionable if 2 girls got the posts?

It doesn't matter whether there was bias or not. What matters is that there's no longer a place for a girl.

Why, you ask, Juells?

Juells

Sigh...

1. Its ironic.

1. Is this a message board for women? Feminism is about gender equality. Being female isn't a requirement.

1. Rememberthetime comment isn't the 'female' point of view (I hope not anyway), it is the ill-considered point of view.

Gender neutral always means default to male. Whatever you're talking about.

Juells

It doesn't matter whether there was bias or not. What matters is that there's no longer a place for a girl

There is a place for a girl, (two girls even) she just has to be one of the top two leaders in the school.

AAK - You're right, I shouldn't have risen to the dangled bait.

If you feed them they'll never leave. Like mice, but less cute and not as fun for the cats to play with.

I would not have preferred it if two girls were chosen - my latter points about equality made that clear.

However, if a school chooses to pick based on suitability for the role, I am surprised that two boys were chosen, as in my experience, girls tend to do better at secondary school level and they have more interest in leadership roles.

And while I agree that enforced equality isn't a great term to use, I'm sure most people would have understood me to mean that girl/boy equality was written into the school rules to ensure it happens.

Who on earth decided that two boys would do a better job than any number of girls

The pupils who voted for them?

If we are getting ridding of girls/boys/men/women/female/male etc then shouldn't we also be getting rid of Mrs/Mr etc?
How would that work, instead of Mrs Coffey, everyone says oi Coffey instead of Mrs?
Or like in some schools they refer to teachers as Sir/Miss, so how would they be labelled?

"Fair point. Would posters be so objectionable if 2 girls got the posts?"

Yes. But, frankly, less so. It's good to see the balance redressed a bit sometimes!

If my school did this I can guarantee we'd get two girls. We always seem to struggle to get a suitable boy but there are loads of fantastic candidates for head girl.

It wasn't just votes though.
They had to write why they wanted the role. Have their form tutors write references. Have their peers vote, and finally have an interview with a panel.
Hardly preparing for working life. The average job doesn't involve all of that.

Lass:

Generally the way the heads of school are decided is a mixture of pupil voting and teacher choice. In the case of my daughter, she won more votes, but it was decided another girl would be a better choice (something I personally agreed with).

Also it's important to note that children are biased and influenced by society and therefore are probably more likely to to vote for a boy in a leadership role.

I can't see how it can ever be fair when unconscious bias is going to creep in. It has to be on a basis of equality, right from the start.

AngryAttackKittens

🤨

Really?

Can you really Giraffes? It isn't about capabilities, but purely who passes the social power test - and boys have the unfair advantage of being male and therefore more valued in society by default, that's the whole point.

We are all going to have to wake up and smell the coffee. This is a return to full-blown patriarchy. We never had equality of worth anyway and what we have is being taken away.

There is a place for a girl, (two girls even) she just has to be one of the top two leaders in the school.

Yes indeed. Any woman could be anything she wants if she only applied herself/didn't get distracted by children or periods/was as good as a man. That is simply it - women have been slackers for millenia and hence their lack of representation in all the top jobs/professions/positions of power. Lazy underachievers.

Good for the head for making sure the girls understand exactly how the world works though - men will be favoured for positions of leadership and women will be told the men made it entirely on their merits and if only these bitter women were as good as them, they'd be succeeding too.

WrongOnTheInternet - possibly from the pupil vote but not the teacher input. We also do letters of application and an interview with the head teacher before appointing. The head (male if that matters) always says how brilliant the girls were in comparison with the boys.

Well yes, girls are out-achieving boys in academic subjects everywhere. I'm glad you have a balance.