Spartacus believes in biology.

[HairyBallTheorem]

Transwomen are biologically male. They are born biologically male and they remain biologically male.

I accept that it must be very hard to suffer from gender dysphoria. I wish transwomen well. I support their right not to be discriminated against in housing, employment and in life in general.

But biology matters. It is biology which means that women in Ireland and across South America and in many other parts of the world are the ones who get pregnant and are then forced to give birth against their will by political systems that deny them the right to abortion. It is biology which enables people in cultures which practice FGM to recognise which babies are female and thus decide which ones' genitals need slicing off with rusty razor blades. It is biology which dictates which foetuses are aborted simply for being female, which infants are allowed to die simply for being female. It is biology which means we are, on average, smaller and less physically strong than men and thus at higher risk of domestic violence up to and including murder (2 a week in this country, into the hundreds in Russia which has recently legalised domestic violence).

I am not prepared to lie about biology. Facts matter. The intersection of facts and political beliefs matters.

This is a hill on which I'm prepared to be banned from Mumsnet.

If Trump, who is also a narcissistic male person who has also been discussed and analysed by hundreds of women here, complained about those posts, would they be removed?

Well exactly Rosen

But we are not allowed to respond, right?

I'd happily disagree directly with IW that mn is transphobic, but IW blocked me while back. Blocking people is like a hobby of IWs.

I am Spartacus. Again.
Sex matters. Biology is true. Gender roles are a blight and narrow the opportunities of all of us. Transactivism is reinforcing these gender roles by their rhetoric, particularly with reference to children. If someone tells my ds or my dd that they can't do a thing because of their sex, it had better be something biological or there is going to be trouble...

I am Spartacus.

And if you don't want to be treated as a man - don't act like a man. I have no issues with pronouns but will not put up with mansplaining, threats or bullying. Or anyone who uses the term 'lady dick' unironically.

Indeed you can't win with narcissists. They are relentless.
If you capitulate they get hungry for the next pound of flesh, if you fight back they wind you up until you slip up and people think you are the one in the wrong and if you ignore or try to escape they become truly dangerous.
They want control others whatever the cost.

One of my fave parenting sayings: You are free to choose, but you are not free from the consequences of your choice.

We are free to call transwomen male on the basis that it's the truth. We are free to express appropriate frustration, fury and disgust. However, when numerous posts do the same thing, in the same tone we should be aware of the lurkers (thanks Datun) and the newcomers and the journalists and the TRAs waiting to screenshot, and be aware of the effect of that on the argument and MN. As R0wantrees said - bigger picture.

And the "bigger picture" warning is being used very effectively to get women to police their own tone. Saves the TRA the trouble of doing it eh.

No, we are angry and we can show that we're angry, because WE HAVE REASON to be angry.

I am self policing belieeeeeve me.

But the frequent TGLWGH finger wagging plops are getting on my tits

Trans activists utilise pile on tactics to great effect reporting women's twitter and facebook accounts and lobbying their workplaces.

Do as I say, not as I do?
What's good for the gander is not good for the goose?

When does a discussion become a pile on though? If everyone commenting on IWs radio interview had referred to IW in IWs pronouns of choice, and no one had mentioned mansplaining - but there were still 300 negative comments - is that then deletable as a PA, or is it just a discussion about someone who courts adversity in the public eye?

But the frequent TGLWGH finger wagging plops are getting on my tits

Exactly. I like mouthy sweary mumsnet as a mum. It's a relief from stress.

I'm trying to think of the equivalent....

If I were to start a thread called.
AIBU that [insert celeb of your choice] is an utter f*ckwit?
I reckon it would stay. It's totally personal and unkind but people get roasted on MN - public figures and mumsnetters alike.

Well indeed Beyond

I also expect IW expected to be fawned over on twitter after the day's exploits.

Turns out the general public are big fat TERFs. Who knew?

But it's all Mumnet's fault, of course

I am not only Spartacus, I am a cunt.

How can we describe the entitled, some might say stereotypically male, behaviour of people who are legally female without using the word male?

This is the bit I have trouble with.

I agree that personal sniping should be done away with by all of us. For example, I'm probably quite a gencrit hardliner compared to many on here, but even I tried to redirect a couple of the Madigan threads onto criticisms of the Labour Party rather than picking over LM's every tiniest move.

I don't think we should be bitching over anybody's looks or discussing how well they "pass" - not that we do that often but it comes up occasionally. It's tasteless and mean.

But one of the central planks of the feminist critique of the ideology behind transactivism is that it is at best misogynistic and at worst verging on male supremacist. If a prominent transactivist behaves in a way that is emblematic of male entitlement, male socialisation or is male pattern abusive, I need to be able to name it using the word male.

This is a feminist forum. We need to talk about patriarchal behaviour in the public sphere - whether the public figure displaying it identifies as man or trans is besides the point.

In fact I forgot one of the things that IW said that totally pissed me off.

That one would think MN is like a fucking nice coffee morning - but it's not like that at all...

What an insult.

Like laideees all sitting around speaking naicely. Ffs. What an insult to mums and the cleverest, funniest, take-no-prisoners forum on the Internet. Bloody cheek.

I am not only Spartacus, I am a cunt.

This is a feminist forum. We need to talk about patriarchal behaviour in the public sphere - whether the public figure displaying it identifies as man or trans is besides the point.
Yy

But the frequent TGLWGH finger wagging plops are getting on my tits

Thank God Assigned I thought it was only me. I think that we are in danger, with the TGLWGH stuff, of not being allowed to say a TG person is behaving like a dickhead when they are in fact behaving like a dickhead. This gives a protection that nobody else is afforded on MN.

We are being told off, often by other users, for describing people’s behaviour in suitable terms. I should be allowed to call IW, for example, a tool when IW is behaving like a tool.

f I were to start a thread called.
AIBU that [insert celeb of your choice] is an utter fckwit?
I reckon it would stay. It's totally personal and unkind but people get roasted on MN - public figures and mumsnetters alike.*

I completely agree, and I totally share the frustration. I posted a similar comment the other day, having got my angry ass off FWR and had a look at other boards. There was a thread about a reality TV thing (so featuring 'ordinary' people, not celebs) where the participants were absolutely shredded in the most personal and hurtful way. BUT - someone replied to me that TV and AIBU etc are not politics. No one is really looking at those threads (apart from the people on the TV programme perhaps - blimey, I hope they didn't see it.)

This discussion is being followed by a wider audience. Which is great - we have an opportunity to get our points across - but it also ups the ante.

@RosenbergW

Trans activists utilise pile on tactics to great effect reporting women's twitter and facebook accounts and lobbying their workplaces.

Yes they do, but being honest I think it's starting to backfire.

I'd argue that's why we should be extremely wary of doing the same thing.

But yes, I agree that saying someone who is behaving like a dickhead is behaving like a dickhead, is not only acceptable but essential.

But the frequent TGLWGH finger wagging plops are getting on my tits

Thank God Assigned I thought it was only me.

Not just you. I hate being told to behave like a laydee/good girl. If I've said something out of order/wrong, I want to know what and why, so I can think about it.

Telling me that while what I've said is true but it's just not nice to say it is a very paternalistic approach imo.

Sweary
I don't think we should be bitching over anybody's looks or discussing how well they "pass" - not that we do that often but it comes up occasionally.

I agree. But I do make an exception for Danielle.

But re. calling people a tool etc, I think if we are going to insult a transwoman for behaving like an arsehole, we should at least have the decency to call them a female gendered insult like 'stupid cow' or 'hysterical bitch'. If they want to be considered women they can get fucking used to it like the rest of us

This discussion is being followed by a wider audience. Which is great - we have an opportunity to get our points across - but it also ups the ante.

Indeed it does, but it is also an opportunity to demonstrate that mums are not some tedious 'coffee morning' stereotype - that might give pause for thought. We've got minds, we have thoughts, we can put 2 and 2 together and what we see pisses us off, and no we won't shut up or be well-behaved ignorable women.

Turning
"I am not only Spartacus, I am a cunt."

Fuck, that made me laugh