Slide show on "How to Deal with TERFs"

[OlennasWimple]

Vimeo file embedded in this Twitter post: twitter.com/Gay4Plants/status/984358165075628032

Warning: do not watch if you are prone to high blood pressure, as it will send it rocketing

I'm not sure what's the worst bit of it TBH: the likening of TERFs to fascists, the fact that this was used for training at the NUS conference, the appalling spelling and grammar, or the downright lies it contains.

Just RTFT and this bit really amused me:

Perhaps it's a generational thing but I've had self-defining trans women around me as friends and in my women's spaces since I was a teenager and I just don't see the issue.

Do you think the generation above you didn't? I'm (at a guess) twice your age and transwomen have certainly been very much in evidence for the whole of my lifetime. As a teen I had a trans friend, and I've had transwomen in my women's spaces all my life too.

I think the generational thing is that most of us on this thread have lived a very long time in the patriarchy and experienced the whole gamut of womanhood.

And we're also bringing up the new generation in the patriarchy, which gives you a whole different perspective on things.

Did everyone who read the slides (Presentation at NUS Womens 18 on dealing with TERFS) also follow the 'recommended reading' link:
described the authors Rowan Davis: NUS Women's Committee & Eden Ladley: NUS Trans Campaign as 'a really good guide that outlines common TERF arguments"

theterfs.com

From the document:
"TIP: In the same way anti-gay groups claim to be “Christian” (WBC), TERFs attempt to spread anti-trans animus by passing it off as a brand of feminism, usually “Radical Feminism” or so-called “Gender Critical Feminism.”

TIP: Like anti-gay groups, TERFs often assert that they don’t “hate” trans people.

In the 1980s, TERFs substantively supported the effort to bring an end to trans health care access. One TERF operative wrote a government report which led the the revocation of public and private insurance converge of trans medical care. According to the State of California, such policies lead to the death of trans people.

For decades, TERFs have sought to legislate trans people out of existence. Moreover, they work to oppose trans equality measures, infiltrate trans-inclusive feminist spaces, work with anti-gay groups to target trans kids and collaborate with anti-trans extremists who advocate bombing US targets.

Much like their far right-wing counterparts, TERFs do not support trans people using the restroom. In fact, the TERF community was the first to use this as a political issue way back in 1973.

Much like their extremist counterparts, TERFs generally do not recognize the transitioned status of trans people and instead assert that trans people are the sex they were assigned at birth.

The TERF movement is particularly effective in their campaign against trans people and trans equality as they consistently couch their actions as political/feminist/lesbian/radical/womanist critiques of gender and are therefore welcomed in spaces that would normally reject the same rhetoric from right wing people and organizations. From consistently targeting trans healthcare to supporting reparative therapy for trans children, the TERF movement – while historically seen as both ridiculous and irrelevant – has managed to inflict more suffering upon the trans community than any other anti-trans equality movement in the history of the United States.

Included in the document between the narrative above are plenty of handy quotes to cut-n-paste.

the threats of street harassment, the rejection, the inability to even use the bathroom or have someone you call you by your name?

Oh the fucking irony..... No of course no natal woman has EVER suffered street harassment, rejection, unable to find a safe clean toilet while out in public, been called by another name ( darling, sweetie, honey, love).

Do people think before posting such rubbish?!

This seems appropriate

Tweet by Ray Blanchard on twitter:

Because AGP male-to-female transsexuals' greatest aspiration is to become women, they experience rejection by women as much crueler than rejection by men. Thus, "TERF" is their greatest accusation and reproach.

Seems that Hadley (NUS Women's) who identifies as 'non binary transwoman' is currently concerned with excluding those people born female who now identify as trans men from women's spaces....

Thanks to those slides, I've ordered Janice Raymond's book.

Yes I've got it downloaded to my phone as a PDF and have been meaning to read it for ages. I think I'll start it on the commute tonight.

@VirginiaComet

a debate doesn't start with denying the person you are debating personhood

You make this statement because:

• you are trying to demonise your opponent in the debate by claiming something that is not true - feminists do not deny that trans identified males or females are people.
• a debate normally starts at the foundational point of difference. In this case that is whether a trans identified male is a female or a woman. If you don't start at the foundational point of difference, the debate cannot function. You can't do that though because you have no arguments to support your side of the debate. You need at accept the mantra that "transwomen are women" as an article of faith, not a belief formed following reasoned and critical thought.

It's a shame that as a generational thing, your generation have been asked to accept matters of philosophy and politics (e.g. the nature of womanhood vs the biological state of being female) as unquestionable facts.

I used to use the Voltaire quote “Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities” in these discussions to make a point about where this sort of thinking might lead. Now we have the first TRA convicted of assaulting a woman for wanting to discuss women's rights and some so-called communist men publishing a song about assaulting women with bricks in the mouth and kerb stomping them. What the fuck is next?

I mention Hadley's current concern since as a member of NUT Women's they have both support and (I presume) some influence.
Whilst recognising the importance to confront discrimination and provide services and spaces that are inclusive we have to also recognise that in some situations, prioritising one group may as a consequence exclude others and as those people's experiences and voices are equally important.
It is concerning that so much of the focus of this Women's Officer is to either demonise (as Terfs) or exclude people born female (who identify as trans men).

I used to use the Voltaire quote “Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities” in these discussions to make a point about where this sort of thinking might lead. Now we have the first TRA convicted of assaulting a woman for wanting to discuss women's rights and some so-called communist men publishing a song about assaulting women with bricks in the mouth and kerb stomping them. What the fuck is next?

This is what is next - attacking female children for not being validating.

www.reddit.com/r/GenderCritical/comments/8cyrlg/popular_polish_trans_activist_rafalala_will_be/

APOLOGIES! Am doing three things at once so upthread, I am referring to Eden Ladley (NUS Women's) @gay4plants

a debate doesn't start with denying the person you are debating personhood

Oh this reminds me why I hated semiotics. Does this sentence actually mean anything - or is it just word salad? Denying personhood would be calling someone a thing or an animal surly?

JFC, the Polish TIM. Hard to tell based on the info available, but since dozen is mentioned - was the girl 12? A male in his 30s beating up a 12 year old girl. Lovely.

OK so I found the video and this time the TIM didn't hit the female person they were raging at. He did however scare the crap out of her, and throw hot coffee on her. The excuse was that she was taunting him. She looks about 12-14. TIM is 37.

Is this OK with you, Virginia? Is it two women having a conflict with each other? Because what I see is classic male intimidation being aimed at a girl who's right at the age at which older men harassing and intimidating girls is at its worse.

From his Facebook page, it seems the TIM has been arrested and charged. The responses on the reddit thread echo my thoughts exactly:

Men are afraid women will laugh at them. Women are afraid men will kill them.

Vicious man abusing and throwing coffee over a little girl - and so confident in his ability to be immune from the law that he videos himself doing it.
I hope his assumption that he can abuse girls with impunity proves to be wrong.

Apparently he has form for attacking people, there's video of multiple incidents of him thumping people, in one case on TV.

"Not sure if "Femmanist" is an attempt to include the term "femme" in the username that went wrong, a determination not to exclude men from the movement one is attempting to take over, or just a sign that we need to place more importance on teaching kids to spell while they're in primary school."

Pretty sure it was a clunky attempt to shoe horn their name (Emma) into feminist

I've started a thread about 'femmanist' and her assertion that she has 'friends' working at MNHQ who will shut down the 'transphobic scum'.

I don't think for one second that this is something MNHQ stand for.

But clearly this person claims to have worked for MN for several months and she holds some pretty intolerant views about feminists and uses nasty slurs, so I'm a little concerned about the impartiality of the moderation she claims to be influencing.

For me the problem with the whole debate is when it starts from the premise that there is no way that a trans woman can be a woman

Well that is the view of science. I’d go as far as to say it was a fact. Humans cannot change sex. Do you actually believe that humans can change sex? We can have surgery to look like a facsimile of the opposite sex but we cannot change sex.

Do you believe humans can change sex?

Hello,

I am new and I have questions.
I definitely consider myself as a feminist.

1. If trans women no longer identify as a man isn't that a powerful message for feminism (they have essentially have essentially relinquished their patriarchal power and privilege) ?

2. As feminism is about equality - does reinforcing gender stereotypes about men and women act to our detriment? The gender system oppresses us all?

3. As feminists are a group in society that have to fight for their voices to be heard, do we not share a common cause with transwomen in representing their rights?

4. If there is an issue with trans women taking the spaces of cis women in women only panels or something, could we not make them proportionately representative of the population? For example on a panel of 10 women, having one spot for a transwoman and 9 for women. would this make things better?

Look forward to learning more and reading your responses.