Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What could I have done differently?

81 replies

Marcussmith23145 · 14/04/2018 16:55

Hi all! I’ve joined mumsnet specifically to tell a story of something that has recently been resolved and to look for advice as to what to do differently. CAUTION long post

Around a year ago, I was on a packed tube on the way to work when the Oyster card of the woman in front of me dropped to the floor. I picked it up, put my hand on her shoulder to attract her attention (she was wearing headphones) and returned the card. She didn’t say thank you, but hey, London. She got off at the same station as me. I stopped at the bottom of the escalator to help another woman with her pushchair as the she couldn’t find the lift. We made small talk and parted ways at the top of the escalator.

I headed for the ticket barriers but was collared by two members of station staff with a shouting woman. I was in uniform (I’m a nurse) and assumed that they needed help. How wrong I was. It transpired that, according to the woman, I had touched her inappropriately. I was confused. I told the station staff that I had put my hand on her shoulder to attract her attention. They said that the woman didn’t dispute this but it was obviously a sexual advance upon a woman of colour. I was still confused. I was asked for my details, which I provided, all whilst the woman was bellowing that I should be arrested. Colleagues were walking past and hearing this. I then continued to work, shaken to say the least.

Around a week later, two uniformed police appeared at my front door. I let them in and they wanted to discuss the incident. I explained the situation and was met with stern looks. The woman has claimed sexual assault and just because I thought that touching her shoulder was innocent, she didn’t think that it was and her opinion is what mattered.

Some brief background to me. I’m a 41 year old white guy. I’m just over 6 ft tall, have lost the battle with male pattern baldness. I’m also a little overweight (thank you relatives with chocolates!). My husband and I have been together since first year of university. He’s a doctor, British born Chinese. I was adopted at 3 months by two wonderful parents. They were from Trinidad, already had 5 of their own but took me in regardless. I play rugby, sew stupid cushions and love the Lake District.

To continue, the police left shortly after I had explained my background to them. They came back a month later, again explaining that the woman wanted my charged. They would be undertaking further investigation.

I work with the elderly. Part of this involves putting hands on shoulders if they are deaf to attract attention, or to help them from a chair. A kind hand on the shoulder can give confidence back when trying to walk again. I have never thought that I was being inappropriate.

The investigation took around 11 months, and at the end the police decided on no further action. During this time, I had to report this all to my employer. I had to be moved away from patients. I’ve sat in an office for all of this time, pretty much alone.

I’ve posted some of this on other forums and have been met with vitriol. Some have told me that they would break my arm if I touched them without permission. Others have told me that if I can’t see what I’ve done is wrong then I am the worst face of the patriarchy. Others still insist that by picking up the card I was infantilising the woman, again making me an awful person.

Since it has finished, I’ve (nearly) left nursing and the NHS. I’m just finishing my notice period. I don’t want to take the risk again. I am worried about providing personal care, holding someone’s hand whilst they get bad news, hugging a grieving relative. My behaviour around women has changed, too. I tend not to put money into the cashier’s hand when paying for things. I won’t sit anywhere near a lone woman on the night tube.

What I want to know is where do I go from here? Is offering a pregnant woman my seat on the tube demeaning her and making her seem weak? Do I help at a cardiac arrest in the street? I would, you see, be putting the heel of my hand between a woman’s breasts. Where is the boundary? As a man, I feel like I have been painted with a massive brush that says “all men are scum”.

What I want to know is what did I do as an individual that was so wrong? I think that I did what any normal person would have done. Am I wrong?

Opinions welcome!

OP posts:
ArtemisRhodes · 14/04/2018 17:08

This is absolutely horrendous! I would have done the same as you.

BarrackerBarmer · 14/04/2018 17:25

I'm astonished.

Not even the most vociferous feminist I know would call the touching of a shoulder to return a dropped possession an assault.
I'm also amazed at the reaction of the police. I assume there was video evidence, it being the tube?

Can you link to some of the other forums where you got the negative reaction you mention when telling this story?

NotAgainYoda · 14/04/2018 17:27

I agree with Barracker

Melamin · 14/04/2018 17:30

TBH I hate being touched. But if you had given me my oyster card back, I would tolerate a hand on the shoulder. It is pretty non threatening if not followed with anything other than an 'oyster card, thank you etc' type conversation.

I have been grabbed by the boob whilst walking in the street and would say that is sexual assault.

I have also been kissed by my dentist. I would say that is inappropriate behaviour - found another dentist.

CardsforKittens · 14/04/2018 17:49

I don't like being touched, especially by strange men. I would not like a man to put his hand on my shoulder from behind me, even if his reason seemed genuine, like the Oyster card thing. I would not want to be hugged by a man - even a nurse - if I were grieving the death of a loved one. I would not want a man - even a nurse - to hold my hand while giving me bad news. I just do not want to be touched by men I don't know. At all. Ever. The example of a cardiac arrest is extreme and even that idea makes me uncomfortable. I don't know the details of the situation you outlined OP but if you're asking for advice I'd suggest not touching people without permission.

I don't think all men are scum. But lots of men are scum and I can't tell just by looking whether you're a good guy or a pervert. Something to bear in mind.

QueenOfQuacks · 14/04/2018 17:51

Why on earth have you joined MN and come straight to the feminist board to ask this? I'm baffled.

Marcussmith23145 · 14/04/2018 17:54

Hi! I asked here as I would get to hear a response that, according to some media outlets, is an authority feminist and women’s issues. I had an issue relating to women and asked for help. How is that baffling?

OP posts:
Marcussmith23145 · 14/04/2018 17:58

Hi there. To clarify I would never offer this kind of physical contact unsolicited. Regarding the cardiac arrest situation it’s not so extreme but are you genuinely saying that you would rather be left to die than receive help from me? In addition, I have already taken your advice. If you drop something, I will not tap you on the shoulder to draw your attention to it. About to walk in front of a bus? Same thing.

OP posts:
BarrackerBarmer · 14/04/2018 18:03

Marcus we get a large number of trolls joining the forum purely to bait feminists, often with outlandish claims.
If one's first post on a forum like this is of the 'beggars belief" variety other posters are understandibly cautious.
As you can see I've taken you at face value and responded accordingly but I do think it would help your position as a brand new poster if you could evidence some of the unusual responses you've received on the other forums.

Marcussmith23145 · 14/04/2018 18:03

And with that, I am no longer involving myself in this post. I am not receiving advice from some people, just backhanded criticism (cardsforkittens) and unhelpful remarks (queenofquacks). I dont need this when all I am trying to do is understand from what is supposed to be a learned forum of women. To jump to such behaviour so quickly is shocking. Thank you those who commented positively. I will be sure to pass your opinions to the rest of the scum.

OP posts:
SecretTerf · 14/04/2018 18:05

Marcus, do you understand why many, perhaps most, women don’t like strange Jen suddenly touching them?

SecretTerf · 14/04/2018 18:06

Strange men, that should say

BarrackerBarmer · 14/04/2018 18:10

"Opinions welcome!
No, not those opinions..."

Marcussmith23145 · 14/04/2018 18:11

I have now reported the thread and it will hopefully be removed soon. I will look elsewhere for support. Thank you.

OP posts:
AssassinatedBeauty · 14/04/2018 18:17

You're asking for opinions and yet you're chippy about the ones you've got that you don't like!

CardsForKittens response was simply explaining how she feels, it wasn't at all critical of you. Interesting that you found it offensive.

I don't really understand what you're asking for advice about. Don't touch women (or men) if you don't have to. Give CPR if you can, but don't if you don't want to, that's entirely up to you. Offer a pregnant woman a seat if you want to, but don't be weird if she says no.

QuentinSummers · 14/04/2018 18:22

Bizarre Grin

0phelia · 14/04/2018 18:24

It's completely and utterly absurd that someone took someone to court for touching them on the shoulders. I can't fathom the anxiety that would be involved for all involved.
Of course a man should give up a seat for a pregnant lady.
Of course if you are qualified you should touch someone else to perform CPR.
Yes it's completely appropriate to touch someone on the shoulder if they dropped their Oyster card to give it back to them.

GenderApostate · 14/04/2018 18:31

How very, very odd.
Almost unbelievable, some might say.

CardsforKittens · 14/04/2018 18:31

Well, that's interesting. I didn't intend to be critical, but to explain my feelings about being touched by men, as AssassinatedBeauty pointed out. I was uncomfortable with your example of CPR because of your mention of breasts (not something that would cross my mind if I had to do it myself).

And you ignored my point that we can't tell by looking whether you're a pervert. I tell you what, though: men who don't get it are men I can't trust.

IdentifiesAsMiddleAged · 14/04/2018 18:32

wtglwgh

whathaveiforgottentoday · 14/04/2018 18:33

I wouldn't have a problem at all with the scenario you've described.
Touching some bodies shoulder to attract their attention is perfectly rational behaviour.

Elendon · 14/04/2018 18:57

Marcus what you describe is saying that a woman who is touched on the tube automatically goes hysterical and gets the police involved.

Is this what you are saying?

Doofenschmirtz · 14/04/2018 19:06

"What I want to know is what did I do as an individual that was so wrong?"

Didn't the police explain this to you? Confused

yetanothertranswoman · 14/04/2018 19:06

I would love to know what forum you were on where you got told you were inappropriate to touch a women on the shoulder to tell her she had lost her Oyster card.

sillage · 14/04/2018 19:09

I would also like to see the reactions from the other forums where you posted this story, it's hard to form an opinion without seeing what they said to you that made you feel like an scumbag.

Swipe left for the next trending thread