What’s wrong with being a trans woman anyway?

[wrappedupinmyselflikeaspool]

I’ve always wondered about this. Why the emphasis on reducing the difference? I get that it’s what trans people want, I understand it’s about external validation, but it’s so inconsistent with the idea that pride is important. Surely pride is all about being who you are? Difference is so important in so many ways. I love difference. I can totally support all kinds of differences. I can’t support describing people as female when they aren’t or lesbians when they are not same sex attracted. I’ve got a lot of respect for those trans women who are proud to be trans. I’ve no respect for the idea we have to describe criminals as female when they are not because it might hurt a non criminal’s feelings. Yes, this post was brought on by the latest example of a violent male being described as an unusual female killer.

There shouldn't be anything wrong with it
Who should deny history. Why not celebrate it
The trans women who want to claim they are just the same as women set alarm bells ringing for me. They don't want women to have boundaries at all

Well we don't know if they were trans, but I see your point.

We should celebrate differences, not rewrite the narrative to artificially erase them.

To clarify, this post is not aimed particularly at trans women and men but at non trans people reporting and talking about these issues in the media and also in other public spaces. Don’t they see how contradictory/homophobic/transphobic it is to try to erase differences?

I guess someone saying lesbians are transphobic if they won't have sex with trans women. That's a bit shit.
I guess someone denying me or my daughter a penis-free space if I/we want or need one. That's a bit shit.
Live how you want and love who you want but don't expect me to give up hard-won freedoms to make you feel better.

Well said wrapped up, you have put your finger on something I've been thinking

I don't know. To me a woman with a penis is not a woman. It is sensible to have a third group; men, women and transpeople. It gets more complicated for me once someone has had gender reassignment surgery. I don't know where my opinion is on that yet. I'm very new to this still.

If you replace the word ‘trans’ with ‘black’ or ‘disabled’ then it highlights the problem with the OP’s statement. Black women can celebrate being black women but are still women. Disabled women can ask for additional support for being disabled, but are still women. Equally, trans women may need some consideration because they’re trans, but they’re still women.

The concept of ‘woman’ is a large embracing umbrella, under which many sub-sets fall. Supporting one small group under that umbrella, doesn’t mean that others are invalidated. Equally, one set celebrating their unique characteristics doesn’t remove them from the larger definition of ‘woman’.

Nothing at all wrong with being a transwoman, if that's what you are. I hope they are happy.

But they aren't the same as women, they are different and I'm not going to pretend they aren't.

There's nothing wrong with transwomen. I'm a believer of live and let live, as long as people aren't causing harm or unnecessary distress to others.

redhood the analogy falls down because they are only women because they are trans. A black woman would be a woman regardless of her race, and I disabled woman would be a woman anyway. A trans woman would be a man if it wasn't for the trans bit.

Redhoodgirl, ... löst for words.

Nothing wrong with being trans. With being an effeminate man or a butch woman.

A transwoman on twitter mentioned that people were insulting her by calling her a TIM. It's approaching the situation from the opposite side.

I see a man who wishes to present as a woman. They see a woman who was born in the body of a man.

To me, the latter makes no sense at all. How can anyone know what it is to be someone else? As a woman, born, labelled, lived, I know that I am not the same as someone born, labelled, lived as a male until recently. There's just no similarity there at all. It doesn't mean I dislike them. Just that they are not a woman. They are a TIM. A special category of man, not a special category of woman.

They're not women. They're male.

Transwomen are not a subset of women like black women or disabled women, they are a subset of men.

A woman is an adult female human. (Similarly, a man is an adult male human, and everything that applies to one applies similarly to the other.)

Nothing you can do can change a male human, with XY chromosomes, into a woman. Not surgery, not hormones, not behaviour.

If a person has such self-hatred or confusion that they do not want to be their sex, that is a mental illness on a par with anorexia. The person and the illness should be treated with compassion, with a view to recovery, not with affirmation, not with the expectation that society should collide in the delusions caused by the illness.

If a person does not want to present or perform according to the gender-norms of their sex - then why should they? He can wear a dress, she can be a lumberjack, etc etc. They are no less male or female for doubt by so.

Gender non-conformists may find that society struggles to accept their variance from the norm. The problem usually lies with men being unwilling to accept variance from the norm, and responding aggressively to it.

The mentally ill person may not have found relief with therapy and, as a last resort, may choose to modify their body. Similarly, the non-conformist may choose to do so. Adults may do what they like to their own bodies. It still does not change their sex.

Autocorrect

They are no less male or female for doing so.

And the shooter was a man

Has this been confirmed?

one set celebrating their unique characteristics doesn’t remove them from the larger definition of ‘woman’.

Except when "their unique characteristics" are what defines them as male, as the opposite of woman, as entirely outside any rational definition of woman.

Equally, trans women may need some consideration because they’re trans, but they’re still women.

Yeah, those 'special considerations' are prostate checks, testicular cancer, male pattern violence, male pattern baldness etc etc... because they're male.

I've never heard of v3 news before, but they're reporting transwoman:

www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/3029552/youtube-shooting-aggrieved-content-creator-behind-attack-at-youtubes-san-bruno-hq

Would like to see it from a reliable source before saying it's confirmed!

Your logic is flawed Redhood, transwomen are a subset of men.

Sharing a shower with someone with a willy can't happen! Surely!

I was always under the impression if a transwoman used a woman's jail it had to be lopped off?

Your logic is flawed Redhood, transwomen are a subset of men

Well, quite. Only men can be transwomen. Women cannot ever fall into the category of transwomen, therefore transwomen are not women.

Equally only women can become transmen. No man can be a transman, therefore transmen are not men.

It doesn't even matter what specious definition you want to try to come up with for "man" or "woman".

The only way you can get round this is to do away with sex and gender altogether, so no one is woman, man, trans, non-binary, unicorn whatever and then we can all enjoy our erasure.

Equally, trans women may need some consideration because they’re trans, but they’re still women.

Nothing whatsoever wrong with "transwomen" as a class of people (some are nice, some aren't, as with every other class of people). But they are not women. They are gender non-conforming men.

They're not expanding society's understanding of what makes a woman. They are expanding society's understanding of what makes a man.

It hasn't been confirmed officially. But then crimes by TIMs are often reported as being committed by women. It's only the photos that confirm they're men