I have Peaktransed

[Chickenagain]

God knows I am accepting, tolerant and open-minded, but if this is our future www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/outrage-transgender-prisoner-living-woman-12022675 then I am truly afraid.

I have known various people who now identify as women and vice versa and the vast, vast majority have no intention of behaving in any way to draw unwanted attention to themselves or to upset the status quo.

IMVHO there seems to be two evolving types - the totally self obsessed delusional - realised that being LBG was now no more unusual than having blonde hair - being gay no longer warranted being a protected characteristic in the UK - and wanted more. Wanted to be special, wanted to be the Only Trans in the Village - the attention screaming Loooook at MEEEEEEEEEE..

And there are others abusing the 'white female privilege (confused)' who will no doubt resort to their birth gender when no longer a trans athlete/offender/rapist/activist, the upkeep of being an invisible female over the age of 60 becomes too onerous and our gender has served its purpose.

I just wish women would wake up (angry).

I think the laws work reasonably today because if we see a man going into eg a women's changing area we could make a fuss.

I think they work because they indicate how we expect people to behave -a form of nudge -which is extremely powerful.

If you change the laws you indicate to society that it's ok for a man to go into such spaces provided he calls himself a women. It's ok for him to look at women's bodies provided he calls himself a woman. What else is it ok to do?

It reduces the "pain" anyone will feel doing something wrong ...the physiological discomfort that occurs when we do not conform to society expectation , so it reduces the barriers to crimes that build upon those little steps ?

think they work because they indicate how we expect people to behave -a form of nudge -which is extremely powerful.

It is. It functions as a form of social contract.

To change the subject for a minute that's often why when prostitution is legalised local demand increases so trafficking does too. When you legitimise it, men who wouldn't have done it when it was illegal start to think it's an acceptable treat occasionally and they indulge. But it's hard to recruit extra local women into prostitution so that's when organised criminals bring in trafficked women and girls. The social contract has been broken.

And of course the industrial level exploitation of women brought in to feed the demand gets a free pass generally too. Because the moral imperative is no longer there. The old social contract doesn't exist any more. Being able to access prostitutes is a mans right, isn't it? Yes it's terrible about the poor trafficked girls but I'm sure it doesn't really happen all that often and besides, many of them are fine with it, right? I always think they're happy about it when I visit them. They've never said anything to me about it. Therefore I don't think there is a problem. You're scaremongering.

"If this article is true and they shower together that is so fucking wrong"

Well it's obviously false because

"I think the laws work reasonably today because if we see a man going into eg a women's changing area we could make a fuss."

They're just female prisoners though, they can't expect to have boundaries and be respected. It's probably a bit awkward for them though I guess.

I think that "well the GRA works well for people like me so as a piece of legislation it's fine" is an unacceptably selfish response. Women here have explained at length why we have a problem with the loss of sex segregated spaces. I know that older TIMs don't want to hear it. We're not going to stop saying it just because it upsets them that many women are starting to change their minds about the advisability of allowing that small number of older TIMs to be the exception to the rule, partly because women are now realizing what that act of kindness has opened the door to.

If those older TIMs would like the previous social bargain restored then maybe they should figure out a way to definitely exclude all but the tiny minority who the GRA was originally intended for from legislation, official guidelines, and women's spaces, and do some campaigning of their own. Making this a problem for women alone means that we will prioritize our own needs, just as you've prioritized yours and continue to do so no matter what the cost to women and girls is. Women are not obligated to put ourselves last.

Jaycee it isn’t hard to find workable definitions of ‘male-bodied’ and ‘female-bodied’, I think it is disingenuous to suggest it is.
The fact that underage kids buy alcohol and people commit benefit fraud doesn’t lead us to abandon laws around selling alcohol to minors or providing benefit to those in need. We recognise there is fraud and people who will cheat systems and accept that there are limitations to systems that can be put in place to guard against this.
Many female bodied want to know that reasonable efforts and legal protections are in place to try and protect spaces that should not include male bodied people. I think the legal protections are there (both through exemption in the GRA and through sex being a protected characteristic in the EA).
I am desperate for legal challenges to start wrt exploring this

What AngryAttackKittens said. Women now find themselves facing the possible loss of all the rights, spaces and services they built up over many decades and we are going to prioritise ourselves. Not only that, we are going to prioritise the safeguarding of children.

I don't particularly want to throw old school transsexuals under the bus but make no mistake that I will if I am forced into a binary choice.

My best suggestion to this group is to organise, separate themselves from the current transactivist agenda, lobby for themselves as a group entirely distinct from the TRAs, and try to build solidarity with women.

The time when it was possible for this group to keep a foot in both camps is long past. And it's not the fault of women. Nor is it a problem for women to sort out.

Agreed. I am willing to extend some protective coverage to children, who are unable to advocate for or protect themselves due to being kids. I am not willing to declare myself the substitute mum of men older than me (or men in general) and advocate on their behalf just because they have a subjective feeling that they ought to have been women.

I would have preferred that it didn't come to this, but as Lang said, that's where we are. If old school transsexuals want a resolution to this situation then they need to get off their arses and get organizing. Women may then be willing to work with them on some issue, if compromises that work for us and maintain our safety and boundaries can be found, but we are not going to be guilt tripped into doing the work for them.

And on a practical and kinder note, I would strongly suggest that those transsexuals who can see the resentment building and the backlash coming take Lang's advice and form lobbying groups independent to current TRA groups, so that when the public realizes what's been happening and the instinct to protect children kicks in they'll at least have something to point at and say "this wasn't our idea and we tried to stop it". Silence will be assumed to mean assent by most people, so if you don't agree with the current overreach then now's the time to make that clear.

Thanks for all the thoughts.

I appreciate the advice was well meant and sincere.

It may well even happen - though it is mentally exhausting at my age just thinking and writing about all this, especially given some of the comments elsewhere on other threads.

So time for me to go back to the family for now.

Men won't pretend to be women to get into women's prisons!!!! Except they would. I just saw this on Facebook.

Hello, the shooter was born a woman. I contacted a few of her 16,000 plus followers from instagram , some had been watching her videos since 2013. I also watched and read some of her social media stuff. (I speak and read Persian.) She was born a girl, I have some information about her life.

Thank you, Alavi.

Really fucks me off that they keep referring to him as "she". HE HASNT HAD ANY REASSIGNMENT!!!!!!!!!
Only in this bizarro universe can a violent murderer demand he be 'a woman' and every fucker has to go along with it.
Not in my name.

She was born a woman. I personally get very annoyed when the media announces some violent man as a 'woman' and ruins statistical facts and everything else with it, but this was not the same case with youtube shooter Nasim. She was a damaged complicated women. Not a guy. Her videos and her words are very painful to watch.

@AngryAttackKittens @LangCleg

This!! I am so pleased you brought the matter up about transsexuals as across all the threads I was seeing this unconscious expectation that women will fight for their rights as well as our own. No can do. It's not appropriate nor is it desirable. We have enough on fighting for our needs and those of children.

Our battle is about our rights being eroded and trashed. We can walk beside TSs but they do need to mount a campaign themselves against the TRA hijacking of their rights and spaces. They will no doubt get a lot more airtime than we will anyway, because as we know, women get disappeared and silenced most everywhere.

I won't put their needs ahead of mine and other women and their children - that would be care-taking big time, undesirable, exhausting and self defeating

In case it's not clear, Alavi, I think MissBax is talking about the OP, not the YouTube shooter. The article in the OP is about a male.

Our battle is about our rights being eroded and trashed. We can walk beside TSs but they do need to mount a campaign themselves against the TRA hijacking of their rights and spaces.

Exactly. I am heartened to see A Woman's Place amplifying the voices of the non--TRA trans people but, in the end, this is a feminist organisation set up to protect women's protections and to lobby for women's needs.

There needs to be separate organisation done by transsexuals (I realise not everyone likes this term but I'm using it as it's distinct from TRAs) because they also need to be putting in the work and not just relying on women to do it for them or basking in the female socialised congratulations when they use women's spaces to say anything mildly gender critical instead of building their own spaces to speak in. And because there will be many overlaps in aims but not 100% agreement.

I see some progress in Twitter discourse but it's way past time that it results in some concrete organisation, separate to feminist organising but building solidarity with feminist organising.

Exactly. I am heartened to see A Woman's Place amplifying the voices of the non--TRA trans people but, in the end, this is a feminist organisation set up to protect women's protections and to lobby for women's needs.

YY totally. I respect them and support their rights but I don't consider them women. And I have seen their feelings and needs being prioritised. Women need to centre our own needs.

What AngryAttackKittens, LangCleg, womanformallyknownaswoman, and Ereshkigal said.

Oh, I see, thankyou. Being new here, I have to learn more about how the site.

Didn't want to start a separate thread, as it might be too inflammatory in the current climate

Found an interesting article on why speculation on a person's gender when a hineous crime had taken place, is not sexist or anti trans:

lascapigliata8.wordpress.com/2018/04/06/speculation-about-mass-shooters-sex-isnt-sexism-its-a-result-of-systematic-gaslighting-about-biological-sex-of-trans-identified-perperators/

Surely silencing women's voices/concerns in the main stream is the ultimate peak trans.

@mightymike That is a very good article and makes a lot of sense. Thank you.